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1000 point Space Wolves army list, for Zone Mortalis

Started by Masked Thespian, January 06, 2014, 11:06:13 AM

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Masked Thespian

Over on the The Independent Characters forum they've running another of their annual hobby progress challenges and I've decided to enter this year.  You choose a 2000 point army and paint it up over the course of 10 months.  For the first five months you build up a 1000 point force specifically designed around the Zone Mortalis rules (as can be downloaded from the Forge World website Downloads Page ("Zone Mortalis Expansion").

I'm looking to do my Space Wolves but I've not played any games of 6th Edition.  Heck, I've barely looked over the rulebook.  So, even though I've come up with the start of an army list, I'd like people to take a look over it and give me some pointers.

As mentioned, it's specifically for use in Zone Mortalis, so the fact that everyone's on foot isn't too much of an issue.  Likewise, I shouldn't be facing any heavy vehicles nor flyers, so anti-tank and anti-air choices are at a minimum.




Army List #1
HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/Runic Armour, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, and Saga of the Warrior Born (175)

Elites: 5 Wolf Scouts w/Melta Gun, and 4 Bolters (85)

Elites: 3 Wolf Guard (149) (assigned to Grey Hunter squads below)
1 w/Terminator Armour, Combi-Plasma, and Wolf Claw, *
1 w/Terminator Armour, Combi-Melta, and Wolf Claw, and, **
1 w/Terminator Armour, Combi-Flamer, and Chainfist. ***

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170) *

Troops: 7 Grey Hunters w/Melta Gun, Wolf Standard, Power Weapon, and Mark of the Wulfen (150) **

Troops: 7 Grey Hunters w/Flamer, Wolf Standard, Power Fist, and Mark of the Wulfen (155) ***

Heavy Support: 5 Long Fangs w/4 Missile Launchers (115)

Army Total: 999


For the most part, the idea is that the Long Fangs can hopefully find a nice stretch of corridor and deny it to the enemy. The Wolf Scouts will Infiltrate Behind Enemy Lines and hopefully come on in a good place to kill things. The three Grey Hunter squads are specialised in each of their tasks but should hopefully be able to take down almost any foe they come across (as well as score in those scenarios), aided by the Wolf Guard (leading them in Terminator Armour as would be appropriate for such a dangerous operation) who can alternatively be used as a separate unit if necessary. The WGBL is there to hopefully take down the worst that the enemy can throw against him; I know that his Saga is expensive and isn't the best, but it's mostly there for flavour purposes.

I'm also debating swapping out the Plasma-armed Grey Hunter squad with the following: 7 Grey Hunters w/Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol, Wolf Standard, Power Weapon, and Mark of the Wulfen. It's the same cost, has fewer bodies and inferior ranged weapons, but has better (and more spread out) melee ability, and doesn't limit me quite so much with regard to transport vehicles when I increase the army to 2000 points after June. Thoughts on this?

Army List #2
So, I've since made some changes to the list.  Here's what it looks like now:

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/Runic Armour, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, and Saga of the Warrior Born (175)

HQ: Rune Priest w/Terminator Armour (120)

Elites: 5 Wolf Guard w/Terminator Armour (x 5), 1 Chainfist, 1 Wolf Claw, and 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher (210)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Melta Gun, and Wolf Standard (165)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Flamers, and Wolf Standard (160)

Army Total: 1000

I've now got three full strength Grey Hunter packs, as well as a Wolf Guard pack where my Battle Leader can go (and maybe the Rune Priest, too).  I'm a little unsure on the Wolf Guard; they're not really shooty enough to be shooty, and not really assaulty enough to do assaults (though I have added a little melee oomph).  I might take the Wolf Guard out and replace them with a Lone Wolf and/or something else.




Third time's the charm, or so I've heard.

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/Runic Armour, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Saga of the Warrior Born (175)

HQ: Rune Priest w/Terminator Armour (120)

Elites: Siege Dreadnought (120) (running off of the rules in IA6 as I don't have a copy of Imperial Armour 2 Second Edition yet)

Elites: Lone Wolf w/Terminator Armour, Chainfist, and Storm Shield (85)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Meltaguns, and Wolf Standard (165)

Army Total: 1005 (got to shave 5 points off somewhere)


The Flamers have come off of the Grey Hunters and gone onto the new Dreadnought, which has been paid for, along with the new Lone Wolf, by removing the Wolf Guard.  I now have 4 shooty units (the Dreadnought and the three Grey Hunter packs), 3 melee units (the WGBL, the SD, and the Lone Wolf), and the flexibility of the Rune Priest to top things off.  How does that look?
Regards,
MT.
Quote from: Ravager Zero
Freaking mod-ninja. :P

Although, given that you're in Japan now, I suppose that's entirely legit. :shifty:

Waaaghpower

I don't play Zone Mortalis, but if you're building the list gor building-heavy and low vehicle count, it's not bad.
I'd take Rune Priests over battle leaders any day, though. Their 4+ Denial Bubble is crucial to psychic defense, Jaws can slaughter enemies with ease, and they can give Prescience to your Long Fangs if need be.

I'd also keep this in mind: Boys before Toys. It seems fun to bulk up on special gear, power weapons, terminators to lead your men, but you're frankly better off with more men. 10 Grey Hunters with 2 Plasma Guns are going to do a lot more damage than what you're getting from the three Wolf Guard, for only 10 points more. In my experience, buying power weapons for your squads is a waste of points. Same for power fists. Same for the Mark of the Wulfen. Wolf Standards are good, situationally, especially since they can bolster your overwatch.

If you're going for power, swap your Melta squad for 10 men woth 2 Meltaguns, and do the same but with flamers for the last squad.

Scouts are a bit expensive for their damage output, but there's not a lot else to spend 85 points on besides bolstering everyone else.

Lastly. Remember that Space Wolves are already great in Close Combat. Anything short of high-powered dedicated CC units won't have a chance of killing you in CC without taking heavy losses. And, if you do find yourself fighting Biker Nobz or a Daemon Prince in close combat, well... you weren't going to do much anyways, power fist or not.

If you're building a purely flavor list, it looks fun.
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Masked Thespian

#2
Duly noted.

I'm in a bit of an awkward place, here.  I want to have an effective list, but I also want it to be fun to play with, as well as match the ideas for the background of the army in my head.

The army is supposed to be specialised in boarding actions.  This explains why I wanted Terminator Wolf Guards leading squads (since Terminator Armour was designed for ship-to-ship combat).  It's led by a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, which is why there's one of those in there (though I will be taking a Rune Priest at 2000 points, assuming I can't squeeze the points for it in 1000 points).

I was formerly of the opinion that my squads should all be able to perform well in all theatres of combat, but thinking over your post tonight has changed my opinion of that.  Even at the smaller points value of Zone Mortalis games, trying to build individual squads that are masters of all trades makes them very expensive and liable to waste some points at all times (whilst specialists are a total waste of points when outside of their element, when in their element they utilise all of their points appropriately).

Whilst you're right in that I was trying to build a purely flavour list, I'm not so stupid that I'll build a flavour list at the total expense of being able to win.  Well, I guess I just did, but I'm learning from my experience   :-[.

I'm going to completely retool this list; whilst I love the flavour of the list that I've got here, I can see it being very difficult to scale up to a 2000 point regular army.  Amongst other things, on a regular battlefield the melee weapon options on the Grey Hunters are mostly going to be useless (being either not enough to take out dedicated combat units or overkill against much squishier targets), and including a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour makes them unable to be transported outside of Drop Pods (admittedly a not unreasonable selection, based on the army background), Land Raiders (unlikely to be buying those), or my solitary Caestus Assault Ram (which I'd rather use for more assaulty units).  The Wolf Scouts are a one-shot anti-vehicle weapon (and probably aren't that great in ZM, due to the smaller amount of vehicles in that style of game) and my Elites slots look like they're going to be well represented.

What are your opinions on Dreadnoughts, including Venerable and Bjorn?  I've got three Dreadnought models that I could include (either at 1000 or 2000 points) with a variety of weapon arms.




How does this look for an updated version of the list?

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/Runic Armour, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, and Saga of the Warrior Born (175)

HQ: Rune Priest w/Terminator Armour (120)

Elites: 5 Wolf Guard w/Terminator Armour (x 5), 1 Chainfist, 1 Wolf Claw, and 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher (210)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Melta Guns, and Wolf Standard (165)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Flamers, and Wolf Standard (160)

Army Total: 1000

I've taken aboard your suggestions on Grey Hunter pack sizes and weapon loadouts.  I've had to lose the Long Fangs (which isn't terrible, seeing as they'll probably not have a lot of line of sight in Zone Mortalis) and the Wolf Scouts (no big loss), and replaced them with a Wolf Guard Terminator pack and Rune Priest.  To be honest, I'm not too fond of the Wolf Guard; they don't put out a great deal of firepower, and they're not especially tooled for melee (though I have added a couple of melee weapons), but I felt that I needed somewhere to put the two HQ choices.  Perhaps I'll swap it out for a Lone Wolf (in Terminator Armour, with a Chainfist and Storm Shield) and...  something else?
Regards,
MT.
Quote from: Ravager Zero
Freaking mod-ninja. :P

Although, given that you're in Japan now, I suppose that's entirely legit. :shifty:

Waaaghpower

Hmm... Maybe swap in the Wolf Guard, and upgrade the Battle Leader to a Wolf Lord? For that 30 points, you gain a lot of power. Adding a Wolf Priest with the right saga might be useful so that you can outflank one of your Grey Hunters squads, too. Really, though, it looks pretty dang good.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Masked Thespian

I'm not sure about adding a third IC at 1000 points.  Whilst I would gain a lot of tactical flexibility from being able to Outflank with one of the Grey Hunter packs (especially since I've removed the Wolf Scouts), that'd be over 400 points tied up in three models (the WGBL, Rune Priest, and the Wolf Priest).

I really feel like I could do with a decent melee unit.  The three packs of Grey Hunters seem like they'll do a fine job at mid-to-close range shooting, but at this point I'm worried about a lack of dedicated melee units.  The only units that leap out at me in this regard are Lone Wolves (but I'll only get a one-man unit) and Thunderwolf Cavalry.  Would I be better off dropping the Wolf Guard for a pair of Lone Wolves or a pack of TWC?
Regards,
MT.
Quote from: Ravager Zero
Freaking mod-ninja. :P

Although, given that you're in Japan now, I suppose that's entirely legit. :shifty:

Waaaghpower

Thunderwolf Cavalry kick butt in close combat. They're a bit expensive, though, and I'm sensing a bit of a problem with them in Zone Mortialis since they'll be taking so much dangerous terrain. But, if you're willing to look past that, they'll do really well.
At 2000 points, (if you decide to take them,) add a Wolf Lord. He costs an arm and a leg, but when geared up is one of the best close combat models in the game. I routinely kill Daemon Princes, Hive Tyrants, and even put big dents in bio-titans with him.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Masked Thespian

Well, cavalry do treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain, so that could be a small problem.  Not sure how badly that would neuter the unit, though.

Beasts, on the other hand, don't.  Would a pack of Fenrisian Wolves do well?  Though they've got near-Marine stats, I can't help but think that their 6+ save will mean that they'll die in droves.

I had thought, last night after I'd turned my computer off, of doing the following.  Remove the Wolf Guard (-210), add a Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter (+110) and a pack of 2 Thunderwolf Cavalry (+100).  Now, if I did that, would there be anything stopping me attaching the Wolf Priest to the TWC and outflanking all three of them?  In a normal game it wouldn't be that great of an idea, but with the reduced lines of sight in Zone Mortalis, I could bring them on, then in a subsequent turn split the Wolf Priest off so the TWC had their full speed available to them.

At 2000 points the WGBL will be upgraded to a Wolf Lord (which I assume will be okay by the rules of the Hobby Progress Challenge).  I'm tempted to go with two Wolf Claws and a Belt of Russ, for the extra attack, but I feel that the extra "pip" of save from the Storm Shield will likely be the better choice, even if I do lose out on the extra attack.  Which is a shame, because a twin-Wolf Claw Wolf Lord with Saga of the Warrior Born sounds like it'd be awesome (on paper, at least).

In your opinion, what is the best Infantry unit that Space Wolves have for melee combat?  As mentioned, I have a Caestus Assault Ram that I'm looking to include at 2000 points and I'd like to put a reasonable melee unit inside of it (likely led by my WGBL/WL).
Regards,
MT.
Quote from: Ravager Zero
Freaking mod-ninja. :P

Although, given that you're in Japan now, I suppose that's entirely legit. :shifty:

Waaaghpower

You can't attach TWC to non-TWC and visa versa, as I recall.
But, Thunderwolves are without a doubt the best Melee guys we've got. Add a Wolf Lord for maximum killeyness. Nothing else in the codex comes close.

Still. Our basic troops aren't slackers, don't forget the power of 30 S4 WS4 attacks that reroll 1s.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Arguleon-veq

Thunderwolves die way too easy these days, against S7 [which theres an awful lot of] they die just like normal Marines.

I know you want the Battle Leader for fluff reasons but you could always just take a Lone Wolf [Storm Shield, Termie Armour, Chainfist] and SAY hes your leader. As hes as good if not better than the Battle Leader but so much cheaper [and hes much cooler with re rolls against big things and eternal warrior]. Honestly I think Lone Wolves kitted out like that are some of the coolest things in the game and with what im assuming is going to be a lot of terrain with this type of game, you can hide him from overwhelming small arms fire pretty easy.

That Rune Priest is quite nice anyway if he has a Force Axe and makes another good combat character [just throw melta bombs on him for walkers].

Ive not had a chance to look at the rules for this yet but is it 1 elite choice? Im not keen on Wolf Guard, if you could have more than 1 elite choice you could even have a second Lone Wolf kitted out like the guy above [A pair of berzerker brothers leading your army with the sage council of a psyker to guide them?].

That should save you quite a few points even with a second Lone Wolf which will let you put the Long Fangs back in, I know they are a little dated these days but they are still cheap and effective.

The only other thing are those Flamers. Im really not keen on them for Wolves, I think their massed rapid fire bolters fill the flamer role well enough, as do their good close combat ability, what they do struggle with are 2+ saves, id give that unit 2 plasmas too.

That actually leaves you with quite a few points. I like to have a little 5 strong grey hunter team with a single plasmagun for any backfield duties as its such a waste for a big unit to sit out of range all game just to hold on objective. So the list would be like this;

Rune Priest; Termie Armour, Melta Bombs

Lone Wolf; Termie Armour, Chainfist, Stormshield
Lone Wolf; Termie Armour, [maybe]Thunderhammer[just to mix it up], Stormshield

10 Hunters; 2 Plasma, Banner
10 Hunters; 2 Plasma, Banner
10 Hunters; 2 Melta, Banner
5 Hunters; Plasma

5 Fangs; 4 Missiles

1000 Points

Plus thats kind of similar to your original list of having a termie armoured model with each unit as you can always just tag team the lone wolves alongside 2 hunter squads anyway. Lots of bodies on the ground which works for the fluff for this kind of thing as its the kind of fights you get a lot of casualties in. This also gives you lots of bolters for those  close ranged fire-fights. If you go for 2 chainfists on the lone wolves they are for busting open bulkheads. Then fangs to bring up the rear and to blow away any dug in enemy positions with barricades and things like that. So I think it really works fluff wise, should be really fun to use and is about as effective as you can get it.
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Waaaghpower

I'd have to disagree about Thunderwolves dying too easily. Maybe it's local meta, but they're pretty sturdy when I playthem. Invuln saves help quite a bit, (even on just one or two guys,) 2 Woumds each, and while they are affected by S7 the same, there's still more S3 and S4 than 7 out there. A lot more.
Besides, once you're in combat they suddenly go from 'Hey look, a semi-durable but killable target!' To 'MY LEGS! OH GODY LEGS! AAAAAAAAAH!'

Also. As much as it pains me to say it, Rune Priests only get the one choice for force weapon. Since it has a unique effect on Daemons, it counts as a unique force weapon and therefore is permanently AP3. (Unless they FAQd it.)
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Masked Thespian

From what I can see in the Codex, characters with a Thunderwolf Mount can't join non-TWC/Fenrisian Wolves packs, but I don't see anywhere why the inverse isn't allowed (a non-TWM character joining TWC).

I love Lone Wolves.  I consider them part of the core that makes Space Wolves unique from other chapters (the others being hidden power weapons/fists, Mark of the Wulfen, and Thunderwolves).  I really want to include them in my army, though I'm not entirely sure that I could justify their presence as a "counts as" WGBL.  I know that for 50 fewer points you don't lose a great deal (1 BS, 1 I, 1 A, 1 Ld) and you gain quite a bit, but I'm not certain that I feel comfortable doing what you're suggesting, Veq.  Especially as I'd like to upgrade that WGBL to a Wolf Lord at 2000 points, which I can't really do with the Lone Wolf.

For Zone Mortalis, there are three different Force Organisation charts.  For the TICHPC, you can choose any of the three.  They are as follows:
  • "Attacker": 1-2 HQ, 1-3 Elites, 0-3 Troops, 0-2 Fast Attack, and 0-1 Heavy Support.
  • "Defender": 1-2 HQ, 0-2 Elites, 1-4 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack, and 0-2 Heavy Support.
  • "Combatant": 1-2 HQ, 0-2 Elites, 1-3 Troops, 0-2 Fast Attack, and 0-1 Heavy Support.
I don't mind which one I pick, but it'll probably be the "Attacker" one, because that's how I view the army; they're the boarders rather than the boardees.  The other thing to remember is that at 2000 points I'll have to consider the regular Force Organisation chart (though, I can use a double Force Organisation chart, so having too many of a particular type of unit isn't actually as limiting a factor as I'd imagined).  One more thing to bear in mind is that, in Zone Mortalis, Elites and Troops are both capable of holding objectives.

In this army, I've written background that justifies Lone Wolves having Terminator Armour, Chainfists, and Storm Shields; they're breachers, designed to be the first into conflict and open holes (literally) in the enemy's defences.  I would have no problem including that build of Lone Wolf in this army.

The Flamers are there because of their use in overwatch fire/Reaction Fire and because weapons with the template/blast rule gain the Shred rule in Zone Mortalis.  Whilst on the open field they will be somewhat of a liability (unless I can put them in a Rhino and do a drive-by-flaming, if 6th Edition rules allow you to still do that) I would like to try Flamers in Zone Mortalis.

I would perhaps like to consider adding a Dreadnought in; I have the Forge World Siege Dreadnought arms (Breacher Drill/Heavy Flamer, and Flamestorm Cannon) because I thought that it would be a good addition for Zone Mortalis (it does have the Flamer weapons that I'm interested in having, so perhaps I could take those here rather than in a squad).  At 2000 points it can probably go in a Drop Pod so its short range isn't too much of an issue (though I am, peripherally, aware of the decrease in viability of melee Dreadnoughts in 6th Edition).  I just really like the model and its potential for storytelling in Zone Mortalis.

I know that some of my decisions must grate on you, because I'm trying to balance the ideas I have in my head with the advice that you guys are giving me.  I'm sorry for any headaches I've been causing to the two of you.




So, after all of that, how's this for an army list that incorporates everything that has been mentioned up until now and tries to make it such that I like it.

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/Runic Armour, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Saga of the Warrior Born (175)

HQ: Rune Priest w/Terminator Armour (120)

Elites: Siege Dreadnought (120) (running off of the rules in IA6 as I don't have a copy of Imperial Armour 2 Second Edition yet)

Elites: Lone Wolf w/Terminator Armour, Chainfist, and Storm Shield (85)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Plasma Guns, and Wolf Standard (170)

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters w/2 Meltaguns, and Wolf Standard (165)

Army Total: 1005 (got to shave 5 points off somewhere)


The Flamers have come off of the Grey Hunters and gone onto the new Dreadnought, which has been paid for, along with the new Lone Wolf, by removing the Wolf Guard.  I now have 4 shooty units (the Dreadnought and the three Grey Hunter packs), 3 melee units (the WGBL, the SD, and the Lone Wolf), and the flexibility of the Rune Priest to top things off.  How does that look?
Regards,
MT.
Quote from: Ravager Zero
Freaking mod-ninja. :P

Although, given that you're in Japan now, I suppose that's entirely legit. :shifty:

Arguleon-veq

It should still work. I love dreads, they are probably my fave things in all of 40K but I just cant see any way of making them work these days unless you have filled your slots and are looking for a few extra guns really. With this kind of game though, if the table is LOS blocking heavy theres a chance you can make him work, plus it fits well with the theme [and those pieces look great, I have a Salamander one].

I think it looks good, its just that Battle Leader.  ;) He is just so many points for what he does. I dont think he will kill too much either with his low S and that AP3 Claw. If you want him in there I would be tempted for eternal warrior, storm shield and then a high strength low ap weapon [as it doesnt matter about striking last as very little should kill him off before he does attack]. The problem with that build though is that he becomes an expensive Lone Wolf so I can see why you have gone for the options you have.

Im not sure myself on that Waaaghpower but every tournament ive been to since the start of this edition ive seen plenty of Rune Priests and every single guy has had a Force Axe, I cant see any way of that not getting pulled up if it wasnt legal.
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Masked Thespian

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on January 13, 2014, 08:08:33 PMI think it looks good, its just that Battle Leader.  ;) He is just so many points for what he does. I dont think he will kill too much either with his low S and that AP3 Claw. If you want him in there I would be tempted for eternal warrior, storm shield and then a high strength low ap weapon [as it doesnt matter about striking last as very little should kill him off before he does attack]. The problem with that build though is that he becomes an expensive Lone Wolf so I can see why you have gone for the options you have.

I know, I know.

Gonna let you guys in on a little secret; the WGBL is me.  The character is based on the fantasy viking character I used to play at a long-running LARP; he's an alchemist (expressed here in his background as a vintner) but when he gets into battle he tends to go somewhat berserk (I...  kind of have a lot of fun fighting at LARP).  It's probably the reason I'm so reluctant to change him, even though I've been okay with changing the rest of the army.  With him, I'm trying my best to forge a narrative (around a heroic persona of myself).

I don't mind changing what he is, but the background of the character doesn't lend itself to being a Rune Priest and not greatly towards being a Wolf Priest.  I want him to be a leader and join squads, which is why I've resisted the Lone Wolf idea.

I don't have a problem with his equipment load out; I just want it to be effective in melee.  I'd prefer to have him on foot and in Runic Armour because I'm planning on converting him up from the 2011 Forge World Event Only Boarding Marine (which is wearing some rather nifty Mk.III Iron Armour, quite suitable for an army based around boarding actions), but if a better option presents itself then I'd be willing to take that.

At this point, I'm looking for any suggestions on how to make a decent WGBL and/or Wolf Lord, or a decent enough suggestion on how to replace him with something somewhat equivalent in the army.  Heck, if Arjac Rockfist were suggested as a suitable replacement for him then I'd give some serious consideration to it.
Regards,
MT.
Quote from: Ravager Zero
Freaking mod-ninja. :P

Although, given that you're in Japan now, I suppose that's entirely legit. :shifty:

The Man They Call Jayne

"Also. As much as it pains me to say it, Rune Priests only get the one choice for force weapon. Since it has a unique effect on Daemons, it counts as a unique force weapon and therefore is permanently AP3."

Sorry if I am sounding stupid here, but I thought all Force Weapons on Psykers were Force Staves at +2S and AP4? Rod of Tigarius, Black Staff of Ahriman, Staff of the Storm Caller and so on?
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Waaaghpower

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on January 14, 2014, 04:30:44 PM
"Also. As much as it pains me to say it, Rune Priests only get the one choice for force weapon. Since it has a unique effect on Daemons, it counts as a unique force weapon and therefore is permanently AP3."

Sorry if I am sounding stupid here, but I thought all Force Weapons on Psykers were Force Staves at +2S and AP4? Rod of Tigarius, Black Staff of Ahriman, Staff of the Storm Caller and so on?
Not exactly. Depending on the ruling, there's a couple ways it could go.
One interpretation is to use the Rulebook's setup to choose what kind of weapon it is. Njal's staff would be a stave, but Rune Priests would be able to use whatever weapon they were modeled with.
However, since the weapons do have a unique effect against Daemons, an argument could be made that they are 'Unique Force Weapons,' and therefore AP3 across the board.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.