new guard

[The Man They Call Jayne]

It makes sense in a vehicle like the chimera where all those guns are being individualy manned as opposed to "computer" controlled

You mean advanced AIs that can track hundreds of targets a second and take full control of the vehicles weapon systems?

No.

It's a super heavy ability.

Why can't GW just balance the Chimera like a normal damn transport? It was fine in the 4th edition dex. Guys fire from the hatch, it becomes open topped. It's already cheap for a nice AV12 unit with good firepower options.

[Mabbz]

It makes sense in a vehicle like the chimera where all those guns are being individualy manned as opposed to "computer" controlled

You mean advanced AIs that can track hundreds of targets a second and take full control of the vehicles weapon systems?

No.

It's a super heavy ability.

Why can't GW just balance the Chimera like a normal damn transport? It was fine in the 4th edition dex. Guys fire from the hatch, it becomes open topped. It's already cheap for a nice AV12 unit with good firepower options.

In the chimera's defence, it can only fire two guns from the top instead of five now. I used to be able to fire two meltaguns, a heavy flamer, Harker's heavy bolter and throw a grenade. I've gained a few lasgun shots, but I've lost a few special weapon slots. Plus it's more expensive now. Anyway, firing three lasguns at a separate target is rarely going to do anything useful; I imagine most people will fire them at the same targets as the passengers anyway.

If anything, I think more tanks should have this kind of ability. Maybe give vehicles a "Gunners" stat, that determines how many different targets they can fire at. It'd make sense fluff wise, although it'd mean making most vehicles more expensive.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I had this argument with a friend who adores Space Marines. The Guard are better because they have crap weapons, crap armour and crap training, but despite that they fight and hold the line. Space Marines get bits and pieces shoved in that make them do this, the Guard swallow their fear, hold their breath, and start pouring lasfire into whatever hellspawn they're fighting that day.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Yes, it would make sense for vehicles to be able to target multiple units. But they can't because GW made a game where that isn't how it works. And then they keep bringing out units that say "See that main rule book? Screw it.".

[Mabbz]

I agree with you that GW has a bad habit of making rules just so they can break the at a later date to make a model seem interesting. Still, this isn't a particularly egregious example, and isn't overpowered by a long stretch. GW's many failings don't seem to have made it into this book, aside from the price tag. There's nothing that stands out as being incredibly stupid or broken.

That said, I feel I should point out that if you were bored you could make a chimera fire at five different targets instead of four, because Techpriests have gained the ability to give vehicles Power of the Machine Spirit provided they don't do anything else that turn

[CoffeeGrunt]

Firing at multiple targets is part of what makes Superheavies better than standard vehicles.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Yes it is. A Chimera isn't superheavy though.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I didn't say it was...

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Did you ever notice how the IG were really short on places to put lots of tanks? I hadn't until GW pointed it out but giving them more squadrons to use in the HQ section.

It seems this is the codex where GW stops saying "Here is the FOC, choose carefully." and just says "Feck it, take everything with a side of more things."

You have Ogryns with a 3+ Armour save for 5 points more than a regular Ogryn! AND when they get that 3+ save they give +1 cover save to anything that is behind them. And you get 4+ cover for shooting through units anyway, so now it is 3+ cover, in the open!

You can still Spam men, which, ok, fluffy, so i'm ok with it, but you can NOW spam men with AP3 weapons up the wazoo, I wouldn't even dream of taking my Crisis suits within 18" of these guys. Ok, they need 5s to wound but GW took care of that by making them BS4 and saying "Go on, have an extra shot in exchange for a leadership test."

People say mean things about Blood Angels and Grey Knights and Necrons. . .if you want the cream of GWs Asshattery, look no further than the IG codexes.

[Narric]

So GW have corrected the Meta of 3+ Armour spammage?

[Tactical Genius]

Narric - have a cookie. Jayne is just sore because IG got new stuff. At the end of the day you are still bound by a points limit. Yes you could go russ heavy but your risking a low model count.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Im not sure about new stuff, I am miffed about new stuff that doesn't seem to have been thought through. Do you need more tanks? Do you need Ogryns with a 3+ armour save? Because they weren't damage resistant enough already. Do you need multile squads of guys with AP3 guns and 3 shots each at BS4 to take up a single Elite slot?

They are writing great fluff, but consistantly moving away from it. Lots of guys who die easy and big hard to kill but slow tanks. That is the POINT of IG, and the guys are getting less squishy, the tanks are still harder to kill only you can take 15 of them in a single list, and with the points reductions I suspect you actually could if you didn't pack them out with gear, and they are getting faster because the table is getting smaller.

GW keep rewriting IG as an army that really has no weaknesses when played right.

[Tactical Genius]

Worked it out and you can just about get 15 of the cheapest russ in a legal 2000 army. No upgrades. No heavy hitters. Hard to kill yes but comparitavley not doing the damage.

[CoffeeGrunt]

And you get 4+ cover for shooting through units anyway, so now it is 3+ cover, in the open!

You get a 5+, 4+ for the Bullgryns.

Hotshot Lasguns are now S4 Ap3.

Do you need more tanks?

IG could take 9 tanks in Heavy Support with the last Codex, wasting HQ on yet more tanks isn't exactly smart, though.

Do you need Ogryns with a 3+ armour save? Because they weren't damage resistant enough already.

They weren't. Pulse Rifles wounded them on 4s, and they only have a 5+ Armour Save.

Do you need multile squads of guys with AP3 guns and 3 shots each at BS4 to take up a single Elite slot?

Said guys are small squads of T3, 4+ Armour. If you can't slaughter that, you're not doing very well anyway. The guys haven't gotten less squishy, they're pretty much the same as the last Codex.

Sky ain't falling, Chicken Little.

[Narric]

Let me just crank out the AP 4 ^_^

I'm really wishing I could start either my Space Dwarf or Dark Eldar army right now, as this seems the perfect time to throw my unique style of list creation at opponents