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Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader: Second Expedition [RT:2E]

Started by Wargamer, April 21, 2014, 09:51:35 AM

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Wargamer

Alrighty folks, so this is a project that has been done before, but I'm planning to roll this out over a long period. This is not a complete concept, but maybe when it is it'll be pretty damn awesome.

What's with the name?
Rogue Trader is the official name for "1st Edition" 40K. In fact, "Warhammer 40,000" was tagged on later.

So is this a remake of 40K?
Yes. It's being done piecemeal, but the ultimate goal of the project is to produce a game that has something of the feel of Rogue Trader, but is recognisable as an offshoot of modern 40K. If you prefer, you can think of it as what 7th Edition should be.

What's the scope of this project?
Ultimately, the entire game - the core rules, the army books, the lot. The intent is to create a 40K game that is both fast and simple to play (which is the real appeal of 3rd Edition onwards) but is also balanced and not heavily favouring whatever army is the new flavour of the month.

Balancing the army books will take time and won't be straightforward, but I'm hoping it's doable. I'm really hoping I can somehow drum up playtesters for this too.

Onwards!

CORE RULES - v0.1.1:

As a starting point, the following rules are applied:

AP: AP is removed and replaced with SM (Save Modifier). SM reduces the saving throw of the target by the listed amount. For example, a Carnifex (3+ save) that is wounded by a Bolter (SM -1) has its saving throw reduced to 4+.

If playing with an external Codex (ie: one that isn't written specifically for RT:2E) then the following rule applies:

AP 6 or AP - becomes SM - (or SM 0 if you prefer).
AP 5 becomes SM -1.
AP 4 becomes SM -2.
AP 3 becomes SM -3.
AP 2 becomes SM -4.
AP 1 becomes SM -5.

Cover Save Cap:
No model may ever receive a Cover Save higher than 3+, regardless of circumstance.

Gets Hot!
This special rule has been changed as follows:
Weapons with the Gets Hot! special rule cannot fire in two consecutive turns. If the weapon has multiple firing modes, then it cannot fire in any mode on the turn after it fires in a mode with the Gets Hot! special rule.


For now this is all I'm going to change. More core rule tweaks will follow, but for now I'm looking to re-write some Codices, and once that is done we can rework the core rules even further. Be warned; the core books will have some major changes in them!
I wrote a novel - Dreamscape: The Wanderer.. Available in paperback and pdf.

Quote from: Liberate the Warhammers
People who have no sense of Sportsmanship have NO PLACE designing any Gaming system

Narric


Wargamer

The first Codex I'm working on is, predictably, the Space Marines. However, I may do Chaos at the same time because there are a few things creeping in that will make things potentially interesting.

So, here are a few design notes thus far:


  • HQ characters may get S / T boosts, even for Human or Human-ish factions.
  • Space Marines are currently going back to Toughness 3, like they were originally.
  • Armour is being juggled a bit. Currently, the armour model being used is as follows: Flak 6+; Mesh / Carapace 5+; Power Armour / Aspect Armour 4+; Astartes Power Armour / Heavy Aspect Armour 3+; Terminator Armour 2+.
  • Chaos Space Marines will not have Astartes Power Armour, to represent them using pre-Heresy gear that is cobbled together from whatever they can find. Some units will be able to upgrade, however.
  • Allies are being scrapped. It just has too much potential to be broken.
  • There will not be any Flyers.
I wrote a novel - Dreamscape: The Wanderer.. Available in paperback and pdf.

Quote from: Liberate the Warhammers
People who have no sense of Sportsmanship have NO PLACE designing any Gaming system

Chris

This could be interesting! I'll try and remember to follow this!

The Man They Call Jayne

Are CSMs going to have something to make up for the loss of the 3+? Or will it simply be that they are more numerous?
Jaynes Awesome Card Counter: +5

Secondspheres Crash Card Counter +4



Wargamer

My ultimate intent is that Chaos Marines will be more reliant upon their Daemonic elements to make them stand out. Imperial Space Marines get more toys and shiny new vehicles and such; Chaos Marines just get tougher due to Gifts from the Dark Gods.

One of the ideas I had was to give every Chaos Marine a 6+ Invulnerable Save (aka: "Blessings of the Dark Gods."). It doesn't sound much, but it would mean Chaos Marines are weaker against low-end guns, but tougher to drop with the anti-tank toys.
I wrote a novel - Dreamscape: The Wanderer.. Available in paperback and pdf.

Quote from: Liberate the Warhammers
People who have no sense of Sportsmanship have NO PLACE designing any Gaming system

Narric

Getting away from MEq, how will Tau and Eldar change? Will you include Non-tyranid MCs? (Riptides, Wraithknights, Dreadknights)  Will you stick with Older gear to start with and slowly include recent units? GK Purifiers, IG Tank Variants, Combat Wraithguard for example.

There, something other than Space Marines for us to talk about :P

Wargamer

Quote from: Narric on April 25, 2014, 09:04:40 AM
Getting away from MEq, how will Tau and Eldar change? Will you include Non-tyranid MCs? (Riptides, Wraithknights, Dreadknights)  Will you stick with Older gear to start with and slowly include recent units? GK Purifiers, IG Tank Variants, Combat Wraithguard for example.

There, something other than Space Marines for us to talk about :P

Okay, so on the Tau and Eldar front... well, the first is "points cost changes", but everyone's getting that.  :P The intent is to try and keep the spirit of Rogue Trader in the armies, so there will be many tweaks.

Tau:
Pulse Rifle will likely remain untouched for now, or at least until balance testing proves it to be stupidly broken (a real possibility now that everyone is T3...).

Carapace is dropping to 5+ so Firewarriors are becoming squishier, but most factions are becoming squishier... so that's fine.

Suits across the board will likely lose a point of armour.

No idea what's going to be done with the Riptide yet. It's one of the last things they'll get, and may become a vehicle.

Eldar:
No change to armour values.
Shuricats are likely going to be SV -2 weapons.

"Ghost Warriors" are on the to do list.

Exarchs may become Independent Characters again. If this happens, expect to be able to bring a LOT of HQ choices...

...and yeah, that's about it. Overall, Eldar are getting a power boost.

Dark Eldar:
Kind of the same here to be honest. Kabalite armour remains 5+, Wyches still get a 6+ armour save for wearing bikinis... not a lot else to say.

On some other armies...

Grey Knights:
They will have one unit - Terminators. That's it. They won't be an army any more.

IG:
They will get lots of tanks. They might not get all of their current tanks, and some like the Executioner will be reworked.

Tanks as HQs won't happen, as much as it pains me to say...

Valkyrie and variants are obviously out because they are fliers.

Taurox is out because it's not a Chimera, and why the fuck would IG ever need a non-Chimera Transport?

Imperials in general:
Lots of stuff planned for "add on" units. Not sure how to balance yet...
I wrote a novel - Dreamscape: The Wanderer.. Available in paperback and pdf.

Quote from: Liberate the Warhammers
People who have no sense of Sportsmanship have NO PLACE designing any Gaming system

Wargamer

So, sneaky view of the armoury! Also, Gets Hot! has changed - you now miss your next shooting phase if you fire a Gets Hot! weapon. So yes, Bladestorm is Gets Hot! now. :P

Auto weapons:
   
Range
Str
SM
Notes
Autopistol
12"
3
0
Pistol
Autogun
24"
3
0
Rapid Fire
Shotgun -
12"
- standard
3
0
Assault 2
- manstopper
4
0
Assault 2
- Executioner
18"
4
-1
Assault 1, Twin-Linked
Autocannon
48"
7
-2
Heavy 2
Heavy Autocannon
72"
8
-3
Heavy 2
Assault Cannon
24"
6
-2
Heavy 4

Las weapons:


   
Range
Str
SM
Notes
Laspistol
12"
3
0
Pistol
Hot-Shot Laspistol
9"
3
-1
Pistol
Hellpistol
12"
3
-2
Pistol
Lasgun
24"
3
0
Rapid Fire
Hot-Shot Lasgun
18"
3
-1
Rapid Fire
Hellgun
24"
3
-2
Rapid Fire
Lascannon
48"
9
-4
Heavy 1
Multilaser
36"
6
-1
Heavy 3

Plasma weapons:




   
Range
Str
SM
Notes
Plasma pistol -
12"
   - sustained
4
-1
Pistol
   - maximal
6
-3
Pistol, Gets Hot!
Plasma gun -
24"
   - sustained
4
-2
Rapid Fire
   - maximal
7
-4
Rapid Fire, Gets Hot!
Plasma cannon -
36"
   - sustained
4
-2
Heavy 3
   - maximal
7
-4
Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot
Plasma Destructor -
54"
   - sustained
5
-3
Heavy 3
   - maximal
8
-5
Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot

I wonder if some of the changes give away what might show up in the army lists...
I wrote a novel - Dreamscape: The Wanderer.. Available in paperback and pdf.

Quote from: Liberate the Warhammers
People who have no sense of Sportsmanship have NO PLACE designing any Gaming system

Pilum

Not entirely sure what you mean by "feel" of RT, but one big obstacle would be the sheer amount of dice that can fly round in the 3e set. I've just crunched some numbers (10 Bolter marines using my poor guardians as target practice!) and while the old modifiers provide some mitigation, the fact that the marines are throwing 20 dice down range within 12" is the big killer - even above and beyond the 2+ to hit in RT. The old cover modifiers seem to have a greater effect than the cover save system too, for info. I guess it depends on how much importance you place on "fast play big battles" vs "more chrome".

Anyway, for wish listing, I don't know if this would be the RT "feel", but a more important morale system is a must, I think - or dare I say it, a method of unit activation a la 3rd ed Epic rather than wholesale igo-ugo. As an eldar player, I look at the pinning and blinding options I have in the codex (and what the serpent shield should have been IMO, but I'll expand on that another time), think of all the annoying crowd control shenanigans it *could* give me, see all the fearless/High Ld I'd be throwing it at (even in a VERY casual environment) and then tool up on the raw killing power. Which feels a waste, frankly.
A prize from the My Little Warhorse story contest: http://gwarrior456.deviantart.com/art/Its-just-a-little-storm-430546453

Wargamer

Well this is where play testing would be very handy; to pick apart issues like that.

My main concern is not to bog the game down with needlessly complex rules. That said, players aren't stupid and it is not unreasonable to ask a player to do some basic math during play.

Core rule changes that I am considering include:

Cover - Soft gives -1 Bs, Hard gives -2, Fortified -3. Minimum of Bs 1. The reason for Bs modification and not hit roll mod is because of Bs 6+ units. My system, Bs 6 needs 3+ to hit against Hard Cover. The alternative is less clear; is it 3+, or 4+? How does the re-roll apply?

Morale - if you lose 25% of your current unit strength (rounding up) you take a morale check. Units below 50% starting strength get -1 Ld penalty. "Pinned" units must flee toward cover.

Casualty Removal - I want to change this because I despise how 6th punishes you for having heroes lead from the front. Not sure how yet though.

Turn sequence... Possibly changeable, bit that's more than I intended to change tbh.
I wrote a novel - Dreamscape: The Wanderer.. Available in paperback and pdf.

Quote from: Liberate the Warhammers
People who have no sense of Sportsmanship have NO PLACE designing any Gaming system