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Author Topic: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos  (Read 4067 times)

Offline Alpha_Wolf

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Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« on: June 01, 2012, 01:02:45 PM »
     here's the jist of things, I need some advice on making something significantly logical, appealing (visually) so to speak, and chaosy. seeing as how I do not actually play anything chaos, and my knowledge of CSMs is nowhere near in depth enough to do this on my own, I figured all of you lovely, mutated, angry, insane, emperor hating folks in the chaos boards might want to help. sound good?

     Good, i'll start with a simple issue. I am making a character for a friend's army (it's a game we decided to play) and want him to be a mounted unit. I at present am going to use a thunderwolf and a terminator lord model to make it look like he is riding the wolf. there are some issues with this though, namely that im worried he'll be too big for the wolf, hat a model not having terminator shouldn't have terminator armor, and that he'll be extremely difficult to attach believably. I have looked at the chaos lord on manticore, and decided that a fenrisian wolf style model is what I want as a base, but I don't know which kit to look at. so questions: A) can the chaos terminator lord kit be used to effectively model a lord not wearing terminator armor? B) which kit should I use for the mount? C) will I be able to effectively model the lord as riding the wolf?

more about the weapons and fluff and stuff later, but now I gotta go eat. I'm hungry.
Quote from:  H.P. Lovecraft
That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange strange aeons even death may die.
Keep this in mind, mortal fools, the Hive Mind can wait forever.

Offline DEF Knight

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 11:51:14 PM »
If you go plastic or resin getting the lord on a wolf shouldn't be too much of a problem with sufficient creativity and force of will. Pewter will be quite a bit more difficult however.

As for terminator armour: most chaos lords tend to be pretty spiky and blinged out with spikes, chains, and all of the rest. As such power armoured lords sometimes look bulky enough to be mixed up with terminator lords. The main difference wont likely be noticeable on the lower half of the torso (more most lords), but around the shoulders/head assembly. That said, I wouldn't go for terminators as on a steed the most noticeable parts of the rider will also be the most distinctively terminator-ey.

In reality, taking a good look at the Warriors of Chaos models might help you a lot. They have models *designed* to be put on mounts, and while obviously you're going to want to be doing a bunch of converting, a bigger pool of models to chose from certainly isn't going to hurt.



As a general pointer, for chaos you're going to want to figure out what your guy's alignment is (and potentially his legion) first. by default you're looking at being dedicated to one of the four chaos gods or undivided (non-aligned), and if undivided he might have some legion specific bits and doodads. Each of these tend to have a very distinctive aesthetics and associated imagery. The main thing to remember is that a chaos lord is going to be garish and baroque, covered in spikes and chains and icons of one god or another

Offline Alpha_Wolf

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 03:10:40 AM »
     I have some of the fluff and other stuff somewhat worked out, so let's see what I can explain of it. the first thing is the one that I am most questioning of: he is a champion of Nurgle and of Slaanesh. whilst I have fluff behind this, i want to make certain that it makes sense, and is not just wishful thinking. He was a marine of no great prowess at one point in his life, with some interest in the work of the apothecaries of his chapter, though he never got too close to them. he sought fame and glory amongst his piers, and so turned to chaos. once there he found that Slaanesh was more than willing to accept him, and indeed to reward him in his search for glory. despite his newfound greatness, he became constantly more haunted by the idea of death. as a space marine he would not die naturally, but he knew well that there were plenty of things in the vastness of space which could rip the life from a space marine's body. because of this he sought an eternity in which to enjoy his own glory: he sought the kind embrace of Nurgle, and the immortality he promised. in time simply being great was not enough for him, and as happens to so many who are tainted by Slaanesh, he sought a new high. he found this by pumping his disease plagued body full of drugs and 'remedies' forcing his massively reinforced systems to harbor the ensuing battle between drug and disease; never being cured, but always enough to stay high. at the same time he took an increased interest in the arts of the apothecaries he once admired. lacking proper means to study medicine, he used his abilities as a space marine to find 'volunteers' for his examinations. through this mechanism he spreads his own addiction to those he does not kill, and constantly feeds his interest.

     that's it for fluff so far, but for weapons and stuff, I have some cool ideas. at present he is cavalry from the mount, wields an axe (I think a 3+ poisoned power axe, but still not totally sure), and has some sort of gun. I have thought about everything from a regular assault bolter to a combi blast master-meltagun, including a fast firing extended rapid fire assaultable bolter, but haven't found anything quite fitting yet. I am also seriously considering attaching a separate bolter system that the mount can fire, but am not quite sure. I have one idea for a special rule which works here, his brain chemistry has been altered by the drugs and diseases in his system, and what once would have registered as pain to his system now registers as an adrenaline fueled surge of ecstatic bliss. to represent this, when he is forced to make a feel no pain check (whether he passes or not, as long as he is still alive) while in an assault, he gains 1 initiative during the next round of assault for each check made to a maximum of 10. I say round because it's a one player turn bonus, if you're hurt in your player turn he gets the boost during the next player turn, but not during tour next turn.

     any thoughts? C&C greatly appreciated.
Quote from:  H.P. Lovecraft
That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange strange aeons even death may die.
Keep this in mind, mortal fools, the Hive Mind can wait forever.

Offline hockman87

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 04:53:13 AM »
the first thing and biggest problem you might have is trying to say Slaanesh and Nurgle can coexist in the same body.  usually slaanesh and nurgle do not get along at all if i recall correctly.  have you had a chace to look through the Chaos marine codex yet?  also, there are riding models that chaos has, like the khoren juggernauts, you would just have to get rid of the khorne stuff on it.  but other than the affinty problem, seems like a cool idea!  good luck!

Offline DEF Knight

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 09:27:23 PM »
Nurgle and Slaanesh aren't diametrically opposed per se (the way Tzeentch's change and dynamism is opposed to Nurgle's stillness and stagnation, Khorne's outward focus on destruction to Slaanesh's inward focus on creation [of a sort]) but worshipping two gods at a time is more than a little iffy:

The Chaos Gods themselves are fickle, jealous, and petty, but often doting and loving in their inscrutable ways, though any relationship with them is always one of a slave a serving a master. The general dynamic, and indeed the entire milieu, just doesn't really work with a marine being dedicated to two of the gods because thats just what it is- dedication. Fanaticism, a driving urge to prove how devout one is, the need for ever-increasing displays of piety and worship. More blood. More schemes. More deaths. More pleasure. No god, save possibly for the extenuating circumstance of the Warmaster in his goal to unite Chaos, would ever agree to split a vassal worthy of bestowing blessings upon willingly, and no Chaos Marine driven enough to receive such blessings could ever divide his attentions between them. In short, to have such power handed to an individual they must possess a singular drive to perform, not just for glory, or revenge, but with every shred of their being; all of their love and all of their hate, indeed all of their very soul is bent towards one, horrific, single-minded purpose.

My suggestion is just go Nurglesque on this one. Other than the themes of addiction and drugs (which, while often associated with, aren't unique to Slaanesh by any stretch) there's not really much there pointing towards Slaanesh to justify trying to rewrite the whole book and go way out of all established canon. The more I think about it the more the Slaaneshi angle just seems really very unnecessary. Obviously it's your call though. Don't forget your choice of gods will invariably affect the aesthetics quite heavily.

Offline Alpha_Wolf

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 03:33:30 AM »
     I think nurgle alone will do just fine. better actually, because my friend plays a nurgle focused army. the addition of slasnech was a leftover from his conceptulisation (as a slaaneshi character) more than anything else fluffwise. the bigger reason for keeping slaanesh in that case would be a factor of gameplay. would it be justifiable to have him as standard initiave for his unit type and have FNP then?
     as another matter of interest, I took another look at the miniature range. the chaos knights caught my eye as being a good base, and i think that the cyberwolf will be a good start for a mount. all of the exposed electronics could be good areas to green stuffify and make it look real chaosy, or just leave alone. plus its cheap (comparatively). the only things i'll still need are the backpack and shoulder pads (I actually don't own any imperial or chaos armies). and a gun, but more on that later. you guys think the scaling and aesthetics will work out well enough? I don't even know how big either of these models are, so yeah. I would have preferred a more static pose, but something dynamic might work too.
     on the topic of guns, I have a few remarks. I really am not sure where to go with his gun, because i feel like it should be something unique, but really don't know if that's necessary. I've already rejected a lot of ideas, and want something good to start with. in terms of fluff it could be nearly anything, but not something that follows the stereotypical ideas of "magic plague cloud" or "bullets dripping with poison." those are almost cliched ideas, and I want to make something unique. in terms of gmeplay, he has to be able to shoot it and assault, and if it is effective at 12" it'll be huge since he's a cavalry model. seeing as how the only gun models I have are a couple of pulse rifles (and a bunch of 'nid guns) I'll have to obtain the bitz anyway, so model wise I don't care one way or another, though something longish barreled and not too heavy is what I had previously envisioned. that can change though, that can change.
Quote from:  H.P. Lovecraft
That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange strange aeons even death may die.
Keep this in mind, mortal fools, the Hive Mind can wait forever.

Offline DEF Knight

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 03:43:11 AM »
a unique gun eh? My knee-jerk reaction would be to take something normally a bit more specialized but not over the top, also think about how it synergizes/compares/contrasts with the rest of his powers/wargear.

Some kind of relic/possessed bolter/combi-bolter (so some additional rule/improved stats. think Thousand Sons bolter or Sternguard specialized ammo) with relentless and a master crafted power sword (or similar, only take a pistol if his gun is powerful enough it stops him from assaulting so you need to pick and choose whether to shoot or assault) would be very nurgle-ey giving him alright shooting with alright close combat. If you have access to the codex I think Huron Blackheart is a good example of how to build a custom character. He has some unique gear and rules, and a clear specialized use not, but nothing really pushing the limits of precedent. I don't think it fits with your character but I always fancied a big daemonic anti-materiel rifle would be cool, making some kind of weird daemon-ey chaos sniper/tank hunter marine (that'd make an awesome Alpha Legion special character, actually)

I'd give more info but I got to split. If you can take a look at codex CSM to get some ideas...

Offline Alpha_Wolf

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Re: Asking for some help from my loving friends of Chaos
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 02:38:38 PM »
 after some thought I came up with an idea that I like. an homage to one of my favorite rules from the previous edition of the 'nid codex: living ammunition. I think I'll infest his bolter with a demon that manufactures the rounds shot buy him. in addition to eliminating the need to reload, this changes the rounds as well. the modified rounds are made of an arcane and terrifying metal which pulses with demonic energy for a few seconds after being shot. after the bolts explode, the shrapnel writhes and grows within the target, at the least this is a painful experience for the victim, bit it also causes huge internal bleeding, additional tissue and organ damage, and even death depending on the precise location of the shrapnel.
     so to recap, he has a mark of nurgle, for +1 T and FNP, he has a possessed bolter (still considering combi weapon, but seems a little unnecessary), he has a 3+ poisoned power weapon, like a half nurgle demon weapon, he has a rewired brain which gives him an I boost in CC for trying his FNP save, and he has an epic mount. he'll also either be able to shoot rapid fire weapons and assault, or his mont'll have TL BS2 (or 3) bolters it can fire as if from a seperate unit. I looked at the demonic steeds section of the codex, and saw that everything gives +1A and another bonus. I wanted him to be cavalry, but thats a slaanesh mount, and I am not giving his mount to another god than he has. that could only end badly. I was wondering if I could switch the attack to something else, and stay cavalry. specifically I was looking at S I or W. they all make sense for a mount like his to give, but the last one seems more nurgley than the others. I kinda want to stay away from that thugh because at T5 FNP, one more wound is actually a lot more to try and kill.

EDIT: I decided to give the mount a TL bolter @ BS 3, and to make him relentless within 6 inches. he can assault within 12, so I thought that reasonable. this all means that he can always shoot the TL bolter, and can always choose to shoot his bolter, but can only do both and assault within 6 inches of the target.
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EDIT 2: I have now almost completed the model, and will post the pictures in showcase when it's done (I'll link it in here if I can figure that out) but in the process of building him made a few rules changes. still not sure about whether to give him a boost to I or to W, but I did decide on the gun scenario. he has a normal bolter with re-roll to wound, and his mount has no guns. instead he has the option to buy a standard bearer and with him a squad of chosen for bonus points and have them able to assault as cavalry as long as in coherency with him. a little better I thing. the standard bearer will have a power weapon and his flag thing, along with furious charge and will replace the squad leader of the chosen.

look they're pretty: http://secondsphere.org/index.php/topic,148248.msg2480746.html#msg2480746
Quote from:  H.P. Lovecraft
That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange strange aeons even death may die.
Keep this in mind, mortal fools, the Hive Mind can wait forever.

 

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