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Author Topic: I think I broke the game...  (Read 5649 times)

Offline Waaaghpower

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I think I broke the game...
« on: June 14, 2015, 05:39:12 PM »
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think I figured out how to totally break 40k with summoning spam worse than any Daemons list could ever manage.

If you take an Inquisition detachment, you can grab an Inquisitor for 25 points, add Mastery Level 1 for 30 points, and then take three units of two acolytes and an imperial Psyker. Since the Psyker is ML1 whether or not any other Imperial Psykers are in the squad, (Brotherhood of Psykers has no minimum squad size,) you've essentially got tiny, crappy battery units. For 109 points, you get 4 Warp Charges.

Repeat Ad Naseum.  In an 1850 list, you get 64 Warp Charges with a few points of change jingling around as needed (whixh you should use to take Coteaz,) and as many rolls on the Daemonology chart.

This means, in addition to the obvious, that somewhere around 10 guys are going to roll Possession. (And you're going to have easily enough Warp Charges to use 'em.) Cast all those turn one, you get 10 (Well, 7-8 once you account for failed tests and DTW, though if you pour more power into the spells then you'll be a bit more succesful but get less off, ) Greater Daemons. That's an entire 1850 army right there, generated turn 1, and you've still got 54 Psykers sitting around every single turn, utterly destroying your opponent's Psychic phase and generating even more units every turn.

Perils doesn't matter, since your units are dirt cheap and you only need to cast these powers once to get your value out of them several times over.

You can't really shut it down turn 1 with any kind of Alpha strike,(Unlike other Summoning lists) since it's so many small units rather than one big one, and Coteaz makes it difficult to get the first player turn. Killpoints is the only real threat, but with ten Greater Daemons coming in immediately, backed up with a lot of Psychic potential, it won't be unthinkable to wipe the enemy off the board. (And Killpoints is pretty rare these days.)

Then again, this list is incredibly boring, stupid, and tedious to play and even worse to play against, so run it at your own risk.
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Offline Narric

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Re: I think I broke the game...
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2015, 06:17:28 PM »
This relies heavily on an Unbound list if I'm not mistaken. Also, Henchman Psykers have a base power, and you would have to hope that whatever you roll other than Possession is better than the standard power.

I can't find an FAQ or Errata to double check anything though :(

On the other hand I agree its powerful, but by no means does it break the game. Compare to Magic, where it possible to respond to an opponents attack or spell by simple sommoning infinite Token Creatures. That is technically game breaking, as it brings onto the field more "Cards" then is physically possible.

Also there is the obvious point that, as its within the rules, it can't break the game.

RAW can potentially break the game compared to RAI, but this can still be classed as RAI.

Offline Waaaghpower

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Re: I think I broke the game...
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2015, 06:36:21 PM »
You can take unlimited detachments in 7th edition, and Inquisitorial detachments are 1-2 HQs and 0-3 Troops. If you don't take Inquisitors to fill up that HQ slot and instead play Unbound, you can get slightly over 100 Warp Charges in an 1850 list instead of 64.

The base power pretty much sucks if you only have 1 Psyker, throwing it away for a roll doesn't mean much. Besides, if you roll all your powers in the same discipline you get the Primaris for free, and worst-case scenario, Summoning is pretty good.

Game-breaking aside, if your collection is mostly old, metal models you might break your table... ;)
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Offline BigToof

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Re: I think I broke the game...
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 02:28:58 AM »
I suppose the main question is:
What requirements are you playing with?
Many people were ruling that you can use up to 2 CAD's.  Some now say 3.
Some allow formations.  Some don't.
It's a bit of a wild jungle out there, and some builds can be pretty silly if you allow for infinite CADs.
Then again, now that you have some very powerful formations (SM and Eldar) that are essentially free bonuses for certain models restrictions of some kind need to be put down.
I tend to still play with 2 CAD, but thinking about introducing the possibility of 3.

Is anyone playing things differently?  (assuming that people are still playing in your area?)

Best,
-BT
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Offline Waaaghpower

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Re: I think I broke the game...
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 03:47:24 AM »
This is assuming you follow strictly rulebook legal stuff, with no house rules. When talking about tactics (Cheesy or otherwise,) on the internet, I try and avoid taking into account any house rules since that can get murky pretty fast. (And, again, this isn't something that I would actually bring to a table. It'd be boring and frustrating to play with or against.) You can add house rules to make this illegal, but you can also just as easily house rule away summoning, or house rule away some other factor, or house rule that Imperial Psykers don't get to roll on the chart and are stuck with their 6th edition power.


Generally, the handful of people I play with tend not to care what you bring, though none of us tend to take uber-competitive lists, preferring useful but still reasonably balanced TAC lists.

I personally avoid Unbound, simply because it's not hard to build good lists while sticking in the constraints of detachments. (Though I might try and Unbound Orks list just because they don't allow for anywhere near enough HQ slots considering how vital and powerful all the ork HQs are.) And, since I pretty much never have the points for anything more, I have yet to go above two CADs, an Allied detachment, and an Inquisitorial detachment. (And that was in a 2500 point game. In an 1850 I've yet to go above one CAD, Allies, and Inquisitors.)
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