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Author Topic: Warhammer, wait what?  (Read 6723 times)

Offline The Allfather

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Warhammer, wait what?
« on: July 03, 2015, 02:25:30 PM »
So, uhhh... what do we think of Age of Sigmar?

Offline Narric

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2015, 04:48:43 PM »
So, uhhh... what do we think of Age of Sigmar?
Saw it when I last walked past a GW. I think they should have probably kept the Rulebook more as a core text, and have these "Time of Ending" "Age of Sigmar" storylines as a proper campaign or themed expansion.

It also completely throws me out of Fantasy, as the last book I bought was from the Island of Blood Starter Box :P

Offline Masked Thespian

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2015, 06:07:44 AM »
So, uhhh... what do we think of Age of Sigmar?

I've been skimming the rules this afternoon.  It's...  umm...  It's different, that's what I can say.  It certainly looks very polished but whether it plays well is another thing.  The rules seem very heavily influenced by games from other companies such as Privateer Press.

I'm not terribly fond of the new story, that the Old World was shattered and this new game is set amidst a number of new worlds, all interlinked somehow (how, I'm not yet sure: like I said, I've only been skimming the documents).  It's certainly fantastical, but it's a very different paradigm from how things used to be.  I'm not sure I like where they've gone with it, to be honest.

Having said that, I think it's brave of GW to do such an earth-shattering (no pun intended) change.  For many years they were criticised for keeping the status quo (Eye of Terror and Storm of Chaos, especially) so to see them actually go through with the End Times and blow up the world is somewhat of a breath of fresh air, even if I'm not too particular about the new air...

Oh, and they promised us that they would give us rules to use our old models.  Well, I don't see any scrolls for Chaos Dwarfs or Dogs of War...   >:(
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 06:10:52 AM by Masked Thespian »
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Offline Cammerz

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2015, 09:38:50 AM »
Well the End Times are over and the Age of Sigmar has arrived, with the Warhammer Fantasy version of Space Marines and everything on round bases. The four new Grand Alliances; Chaos, Death, Destruction and Order, guess which one the Dark Elves are in? No, you guessed incorrectly, they're in Order. They've also decided to rename everything, Orks are now Orruks, Elves are Aelfs (or Aelves, I'm not certain) and Dwarfs are Duardin. (My guess is that they've gone from names they can't copyright to names which they can, like Imperial Guard becoming Astra Militarum).

In a first for GW since the days when they almost supported the Specialist Games range, the new rules and 'warscrolls' are available to download for free from the website. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/age-of-sigmar-compendiums?_requestid=5615132

I'm going to spend a while reading through this lot but my first impressions are low. It looks like they're turning fantasy into 40k and I doubt that I'll be participating.

EDIT: "The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice." - genuine rule for Bretonnian Grail Knights
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 10:09:10 AM by Cammerz »
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Offline Narric

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2015, 10:32:04 AM »
Free Rules and Army Books? I'm genuinely not sure what to think!! I mean I guess you can buy a physical copy to save printing out a warscroll yourself, but wow, thats a step I would have never thought GW to take.

"The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice." - genuine rule for Bretonnian Grail Knights
So we're going to be seeing a lot more Meta actions that effect in-game results :P And a lot of people doig stupid stuff for fun.

One other thing that comes to mindis that maybe they realised people were hacking the E-reader and Tablet editions of their Codexi and figured it would be easier to just give the rules and books for free :P
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 10:35:27 AM by Narric »

Offline Cammerz

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2015, 10:42:49 AM »
It looks like the rules are free however no points values are provided so I have no idea how this game is supposed to be balanced.

I've also found this rule for Josef Bugman;
"Liquid Fortification: You can add 1 to the Bravery of Josef Bugman and any Dispossessed unit from your army within 4" of him whilst you are holding a drink."

EDIT: Greasus Goldtooth has a rule where you literally bribe your opponent to control one of their units, make it flee, stop it doing things etc. for a turn, and you can attempt to bribe your opponent every turn. You could go to a tournament and hear "I'll pay you £10 if your Stormvermin flee this turn" and that would be perfectly acceptable.

And another one; "One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a violent lunatic, and his temper does little to help his stretched sanity. If, during your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 for him until your next hero phase. If Konrad von Carstein talks back to you, re-roll all failed hit rolls instead." - what?

The WoC cockatrice also involves a staring contest.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 09:13:20 AM by Cammerz »
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Offline Narric

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2015, 11:05:33 AM »
I noticed that as well.

I think they're more akin to an Errata than a true Army Book. They expect people to have the army book of choice already, which would provide Pts costs and limitations, whilst the Warscroll just a updates the units to be in line with the new rules.

Offline Scout Sergeant Mkoll

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2015, 08:02:06 PM »
Now this sounds interesting. I think I may need to look into this. The name changes are a minor detail, and frankly I prefer Duardin for my favourite race, but it's nice to see GW actually advancing things. Assuming they do things correctly this could be very, very interesting. I also quite like the fact that they've gone back, at least in part, to tongue in cheek craziness if Bugman's rules etc are accurate.

Does it still play like Fantasy or is it more akin to 40k now?
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Offline Mabbz

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2015, 08:17:38 PM »
Does it still play like Fantasy or is it more akin to 40k now?
I went in to Games Workshop (actually hoping for a game of 40k, but whatever) and some of the people there were describing it as a cross between 40k and the Hobbit. I feel I should point out at this stage that the core rules are exactly four pages long. So that's an interesting change.

Offline Scout Sergeant Mkoll

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2015, 08:20:46 PM »
I've not played the Hobbit so that grants little information. I like that there's elements of 40k though as that was how I got in to Fantasy in the first place, through 40k.

4 pages long? That's impressive. Or worrying, one of the 2. Think I'll pop down to GW next weekend and see what I can find out.
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Offline Narric

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2015, 10:57:06 PM »
The four page rule book has begun to worry me. All those additional rules, mainly related to psychology, lended greatly to how regiments and individuals would react to something. now all that is squished nto a single "Bravery" score.

A weapon defined roll to hit also doesn't make much sense. It implies to me (gfrom my breese through of reading the rules and dwarf Warscroll) that a Sword is just as likely to hit when equipped by a "lvl 1" human, then it is in the hands of a centuries old Dwarf or Elf. same applies to how easy a weapon would inflict damage not reflecting the target its hitting. Why does Sword of Mediocrity wound a greater daemon easier than Axe of +5 Awesome and Chest Hair?

Then I realised something else. A while ago one of the GW design team left, and joined Mantic Games. Alessio Cavatore then made the core rules for Kings of War and Warpath which use much simpler stats and mechanics to play pretty much the same Warhammer games. With this realisation, I began wondering if GW have made this move to compete with Mantics simpler rules, and to perhaps make Cavatore regret leaving the company.

Offline Cammerz

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2015, 09:21:39 AM »
I noticed that as well.

I think they're more akin to an Errata than a true Army Book. They expect people to have the army book of choice already, which would provide Pts costs and limitations, whilst the Warscroll just a updates the units to be in line with the new rules.

GW are no longer selling the army books. This is concerning. One person I know has interpreted the new rules as 'you each have an army with the same number of models' which is of course ridiculous and broken but the lack of points values anywhere does suggest that he might be right and that means that balance becomes nearly impossible.
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Offline The Allfather

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2015, 03:07:28 PM »
Yeah, it doesn't make sense for them to literally blow it all up, yet expect people to use their old Army Books to balance the new armies. There doesn't seem to be any kind of structure, just bring whatever you want and play. Which can work if you're only playing with friends, but what about tournaments?

Offline Narric

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 01:22:20 PM »
Original posting on Beasts of War website: http://www.beastsofwar.com/age-of-sigmar/age-sigmar-app-coming-future-plans/
  • Age of Sigmar/Games Workshop will be attending all major shows (including Gen Con)
  • They want to talk with the community about the game
  • This IS the new Warhammer. There is no 9th Edition
  • The silly rules from the current Warscrolls are their way of allowing people to say a fond farewell to their armies and continue using them
  • Armies of the past will be replaced. The example used was Orcs and the new Ooruks. Ooruks will look different to regular Orcs and therefore in the future the old models will be phased out
  • There will NEVER be points values
  • Age of Sigmar will support all modes of play…
  • Narrative Campaigns will give you the forces to use in each game
  • Tournament play will be considered with a way of balancing force
  • The Rules will always be free…
  • Books will be released but they will just contain additional fluff/background
  • They are intending the game to be played with a handful of models straight out of the box (think Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit)
  • Totally open to rules revisions as the game grows (think Living Rule Books from Bloodbowl etc)

Emphasis my own.

On thast third highlighted point, what does that even mean? That the only way GW will balance an issue, is if its noticed/exploited in a tournament setting? Surely that is too slow for any real damage to be averted.

Offline The Allfather

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Re: Warhammer, wait what?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2015, 03:14:33 AM »
  • They want to talk with the community about the game

Maybe they should start doing this BEFORE they do things like completely scrap a game to make way for a new one. I swear, in any other medium the company would go down in flames acting the way GW does all the time. They make beautiful models, but their business practices seem to leave people scratching their heads a lot. Maybe I don't know the market well enough, maybe most people don't care, but from every forum I've seen responses on, none of them have been particularly good.

 

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