Author Topic: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV  (Read 23328 times)

Offline Narric

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See this thread for the model in question - http://secondsphere.org/index.php/topic,148202.0.html


Info:
Quote from: Warhammer 40k Wiki
The Stormbird was the Imperial dropship used by the Space Marine Legions during the Great Crusade just before the outbreak of the Horus Heresy and the introduction of the Thunderhawk gunship still used at the present time by almost all Space Marine Chapters. They were void-capable as well as versatile in atmospheric flight. The actual Adeptus Mechanicus pattern type of the Stormbird was the Warhawk VI. The Stormbird played a similar tactical role for the Astartes to that of the Thunderhawk gunship today, and it had many weapons for supporting troops while deploying planetside from its front hatch. Stormbirds were first manufactured on Terra by the Yndonesic Bloc for use against the Panpacific techno-barbarian tribes during the Unification Wars that united all of Terra under the rule of the Emperor of Mankind before the start of the Great Crusade in the 31st Millennium. Their wings can be folded or collapsed back against the Stormbird's chassis in some manner when the spacecraft was not in-atmosphere. A Stormbird was bulkier and larger than a Thunderhawk and also less agile in flight. However, the Stormbird could carry up to the equivalent of a modern Space Marine company, between 60 and 100 Space Marines. The Stormbird had missiles slung under both wings and a powerful cannon mounted on its nose. Stormbirds were piloted by two Space Marines sitting back to back along with two Servitors hardwired into the vessel. It is not known what a Stormbird actually looked like, yet early drawings of the Thunderhawk show organic, large, and Vertical Take-off and Landing (VTOL) capable Imperial landing craft dropping Space Marines on a target and it is assumed that the Stormbird looked much like these early pattern Thunderhawks, only larger.

Quote
The Warhawk VI dropship, commonly known as the Stormbird, was an assault and transport aircraft used by the Space Marine Legions during the Great Crusade, before the introduction of the smaller Thunderhawk pattern.

History
Capable of both void and atmospheric flight, the Stormbird was first manufactured on Terra, by the Yndonesic Bloc for use against the Panpacific tribes, during the Unification Wars. They were in use throughout the Great Crusade, although by the time of the Horus Heresy, most of the Legions had switched to the smaller, more agile Thunderhawk. The Luna Wolves were one of the few Legions that deliberately kept Stormbirds in service, since these ships had carried them into battle since the beginning. A Stormbird was piloted by two Marines sitting back-to-back, along with two hard-wired servitors.

During the Heresy, Nathaniel Garro, former Captain of the Death Guard Legion, used a Stormbird to travel to various planets, on the orders of Malcador the Sigillite. Like Garro's Power Armour, the ship bore no Legion insignia or colours, and was a uniform grey.

Since the Heresy, aging Stormbirds are still utilized by some Chaos Space Marine forces such as the Word Bearers

Sources:
Horus Rising by Dan Abnett
Garro: Oath of Moment by James Swallow
Garro: Legion of One by James Swallow
False Gods by Graham McNeil
Dark Disciple by Anthony Reynolds

Fan-made concept Art (link to Artists DA - http://armondikov.deviantart.com/)


Supposed Artwork depicting Vehicle (Kindly supplied by Thantos)





That backstory done, so we're all on the same page, and for ease of referencing purposes, lets get this project underway.

I'll just put forward my initial thoughts. Feel free to blast whatever you don't like :P



Stormbird                               600Points/Model

   CostFrontSideRearBs
Stormbird6001212114
       

Unit Composition:           
  • 1 Stormbird

Unit Type:
  • Vehicle (Skimmer, Tank)
  • Flyer*

Structure Points
  • 6
Wargear:
  • 1 Turbo Laser Main Cannon (Hull mounted)
  • 6 Twin-linked Heavy Bolters (Sponson mounted)
  • 2 twin-linked Hydra Autcannons (Turret mounted)
  • Ceramite Plating

Special rules:           
  • Orbital Lander
  • Deep Strike
  • Assault Vehicle
  • Power of the Machine Spirit

Capacity:           
  • Sixty Power Armour Models and/or Two Walkers/Monstrous Creatures
  • No Vehicles
Access:
  • 1 Forward Ramp
  • 4 Side Doors

Options:
  • May be upgrade to carry up to 5 Dreadnoughts or Monstrous Creatures, for 55pts. It may no longer carry non-Walker or Monstrous Creature units

*In games of Apocalypse, The Stormbird is treated as a Flyer with a Hover Mode



Well chaps, I've laid down some ground work, lets see what we build.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 10:26:13 PM by Wargamer »

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 10:28:04 AM »
That AA turrent is essentially the thing mounted on a Hydra is it not? 2 Long barreled Autocannons?

It could use the Orbital Lander rule if that is still a thing.

And the main cannon, possibly a Turbo Laser?

Id say it could carry more than a single Dreadnough/MC too. The Storm Raven can carry 10 men AND a Dread and that is tiny by comparison.

40 infanty or 4 Dreads/MC or any mix of these (Dreadnought taking up 10 infantry spots)
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Offline Narric

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 10:39:28 AM »
That AA turrent is essentially the thing mounted on a Hydra is it not? 2 Long barreled Autocannons?
Considering the size of the Stormbird, it wouldn't be suprsing if it was the AA Turret

Quote
It could use the Orbital Lander rule if that is still a thing.
I don't know that rule. I assume if I just slot that in, everybody else will understand it?

Quote
And the main cannon, possibly a Turbo Laser?
See above.

Quote
Id say it could carry more than a single Dreadnough/MC too. The Storm Raven can carry 10 men AND a Dread and that is tiny by comparison.

40 infanty or 4 Dreads/MC or any mix of these (Dreadnought taking up 10 infantry spots)

40 models and/or 4 Dreadnoughts/Monstrous Creatures? You can garauntee a Grey Knights player will abuse this.

I'd say 2 Dreads or MCs. To try and balance it somehow. 3 if 2 is a hamstring.

thanks for the input Magnus :D

[edit]
Just had a quick brainstorm to allow it to be upgraded to carry solely Dreadnoughts and Monstrous Creatures. For a cost.

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 11:21:21 AM »
As I remember it, the Orbital Lander rule allows you to come in as a flyer, land for a turn to allow the desired units to leave, and then take of again next turn. Its pretty essential for having units that distribute other units about the place.

Of course it may not be in place anymore, I havnt read the latest Apoc rules. :)
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Offline Narric

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 11:42:39 AM »
Ok, thats slotted in, as well as "Deep Strike," "Assault Vehicle," and "Power of the Machine Spirit"

What can you tell me about the Turbo Laser? should I look at a LAscannon as a basis, then ramp-up?

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 12:22:21 PM »
Umm, cant really give out the stats, but its better than S10. Falls just short of a Railgun in terms of AP and could reach across a standard 40k table.

Also, as a Super Heavy it shuld have at least 2 structure points, although we may need to increase the cost to balance all this out. maybe 550 all told.
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Offline Narric

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 12:51:48 PM »
Umm, cant really give out the stats, but its better than S10. Falls just short of a Railgun in terms of AP and could reach across a standard 40k table.
I got'ya :P

Quote
Also, as a Super Heavy it shuld have at least 2 structure points, although we may need to increase the cost to balance all this out. maybe 550 all told.
JSYK, I haven't lood at Apocaslypse or Imperial armour rules at all (save experimental rules published on Forge World). So I will be going by what other people say in regards to Super Heavy rules/info.

I assume we shall set this as a Vehicle (Flyer, Super Heavy) then?

[edit]
I seem to have messed up the table coding. If someone can help me fix that, it would be much appreciated.

Offline Rarity Declis

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 04:21:36 PM »
Well, according to Horus Rising, the Stormbird can carry OVER Fifty Marines. So I'd have about sixty Marines worth within.

So, I'd start there. Also, rather than have it carry x amount of anything, I prefer the conversion system.

10 Marines = 10 Power Armoured Marines
5 Terminators = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 Dreadnought = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 Tank = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 MC = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 Land Raider = 20 Power Armoured Marines



Well, the Stormbird apparently has hover thrusters, like a recently released Stormtalon model...

So, maybe some sort of Hover Strike rule?
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Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 04:49:15 PM »
That means this thing could carry THREE Landraiders. even the Thunderhawk Transporter only gets 1.

You mean something like the Valkrye rule that lets it stop counting as a flier and it just counts a s skimmer for as long as you like? That could work. That plus the additional capacity could bring us up to 600 points easily.
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Offline Narric

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 04:56:11 PM »
Well, according to Horus Rising, the Stormbird can carry OVER Fifty Marines. So I'd have about sixty Marines worth within.

So, I'd start there. Also, rather than have it carry x amount of anything, I prefer the conversion system.

10 Marines = 10 Power Armoured Marines
5 Terminators = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 Dreadnought = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 Tank = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 MC = 10 Power Armoured Marines
1 Land Raider = 20 Power Armoured Marines

I assume this is something that would be explained in the vehicles "force section" rather then the "Army List" section :P

Quote
Well, the Stormbird apparently has hover thrusters, like a recently released Stormtalon model...

So, maybe some sort of Hover Strike rule?
I have that issue of WD, so should I just slot in the "Hover Strike" rule as written there? (not re-writting it, due to IP law stuff whatsit IDK)

That means this thing could carry THREE Landraiders. even the Thunderhawk Transporter only gets 1.
I think we should disallow anything bigger then a Rhino at this point. Also, model wise its not physically big enough to imply the ability to carry a Land Raider, let alone three.

Quote
You mean something like the Valkrye rule that lets it stop counting as a flier and it just counts a s skimmer for as long as you like? That could work. That plus the additional capacity could bring us up to 600 points easily.
Is this the Imperial Armour rule, becuase I don't believe the IG has this. Its merely counted as a skimmer.

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 05:15:47 PM »
Yeah, you can find it in the PDF update of IA:1 assuming thats still floating about cyberspace.

I would say no vehicles at all. Walkers excluded obviously. The only things that can carry other transports are the Thunderhawk Transporter and the Tau Manta, which is alost 4 times the price we are talking about here.
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Offline Narric

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 05:20:07 PM »
I'll try and scrounge upa PDF of IA:1 update then.

Then after that I need to fix the darn unit entry in the first post.



I think we should try and get as much of the forum into this. I was/am trying to make this a FORUM project, as opposed to something I personally want (:shifty:)

So heres is a first draft banner to advertise this project. please include in your sig.

Code: [Select]
[url=http://secondsphere.org/index.php/topic,148204.0.html][img]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/168/f/6/stormbird_banner_by_narric_sb0-d53t9x6.png[/img][/url]

[edit]
Managed to sort of the unit entry. It looks much better now.

Offline Wargamer

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 07:34:46 PM »
Okay, initial thoughts:
  • AV13 all round feels extreme - this is still a flyer, after all. AV12 is better, perhaps 12/12/11. Ceramite Plating is a must, since it's given as standard to all Space Marine vehicles now. ::)
  • 2 Structure Points? A normal Thunderhawk has 3! You're looking at around 6 for this thing I'd reckon.
  • Weapon wise, I like the idea of a nose mounted Turbo Laser / Battlecannon myself. :P
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Offline Narric

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 07:58:44 PM »
Okay, initial thoughts:
  • AV13 all round feels extreme - this is still a flyer, after all. AV12 is better, perhaps 12/12/11. Ceramite Plating is a must, since it's given as standard to all Space Marine vehicles now. ::)
  • 2 Structure Points? A normal Thunderhawk has 3! You're looking at around 6 for this thing I'd reckon.
  • Weapon wise, I like the idea of a nose mounted Turbo Laser / Battlecannon myself. :P

AV13 all round seemed suitable, but looking at IA Flyers, I can see how it would be OTT.

+4 Structure Points incoming :P

Awesome xD

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Forum Project - Designing rules for the Stormbird/Warhawk IV
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 08:54:19 PM »
Bear in mind, the Manta has 4 more Structure points but costs the same as 4 Baneblades. Costing is going become an issue. This thing is going to be expensive to field. We are in Reaver Titan territory now in terms of structure points, Approaching Warlord with (I think) has 8? Although im not certain.

Could easily add another 40-50 points per Structure Point. But thats just my thought on the matter.

If we are giving this thing a hover mode, is it going to be a fast skimmer or just a skimmer? To me, fast skimmer seems a bit much, its not going to be THAT agile at low speeds is it, which is what Fast Skimmer tends to suggest.
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