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Author Topic: Chapter Approved - Thoughts and Commentary  (Read 37 times)

Offline Waaaghpower

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Chapter Approved - Thoughts and Commentary
« on: December 02, 2017, 08:02:01 PM »
Having seen all the leaks, I'm gonna just share some thoughts on them here. Mostly about the factions that I play. (But I play a ton of factions, so...)

I'm quite happy with the Sisters of Battle updates. The changes to Celestine are fair, making Gemeni more valuable while keeping Celestine from being an auto-include.
Our Warlord Trait is positively awful (Re-rolls on Leadership is not worth using up a Warlord Trait,) but our Relic is pretty badass - In fact, if we're talking 'Original weapon vs Relic version' it's arguably the best relic weapon in the game, possibly tied with the Teeth of Terra/Blade of the Hydra. Making a Power Sword into a better version of a Relic Blade is great, especially since it gives us our only beatstick HQ outside of Celestine. (For 49pts, a Canonness is now going to be very threatening in Close Combat. I can't think of many CC characters who are gonna be tougher for that cost.)
Oh, and both of our strategems are fantastic - Extra Acts of Faith are beastly, and gives more reason to take cheap characters, since they can give buffs upon death. More importantly, Sisters of Battle now have access to some genuine, fairly good psychic denial that they were previously lacking in.

Space Wolves aren't quite as good in terms of new abilities, but our points cuts are fantastic, bringing everything into line with generic Marines, making TWolves and Wulfen viable (and even good!) again, and making many of our characters cheaper. (Except Arjac, who inexplicably got a 5pt bump for some reason?!)
Our relic weapon is better than nothing, and can make for a fairly good infantry-killer. It's better than the Burning Blade, at least. Our Warlord Trait is badass, which is also really great. The 'True Grit' strategem is a little lackluster, but better than nothing, and the outflank strategem is actually pretty fantastic.

Deathwatch are... Okay. The Warlord Trait is fine, but not amazing. The anti-vehicle Strategem is nice, if you have a Watch Master who likes getting into close combat with vehicles for some reason, but it's too specific and conditional for my taste. The Relic letting units teleport is really great, and the bonus hits on 6s strategem is garbage.

Imperial Knights are kind of a weird one. Everything available is basically just a flat upgrade, kind of a "What's that? You wanted to take Imperial Knights as your main faction? Uh... Okay!"
The Warlord Trait just gives a bonus attack, the relic Sword just gives +1 to Wound against S7 (Okay, it's two higher strength, but semantics aside the effect is the same,) and the Strategem gives +1 to invulns. It's nice for players who want to make a really beefy Knight to lead their army.

Orks...
I'm very disappointed with Orks. Every other faction I play either got some kind of valuable tool that they previously didn't have access to, very noticeable damage increases, or new mobility options to allow for interesting play.
Orks get some decent price cuts on a few weapons and a couple units, but it's nowhere near the kind of overhaul we really need. (Power Klaws being cheaper is nice, a few other random things are nice, but... Well, making a Shokk Attack Gun 20pts cheaper doesn't make it good, and that's the theme of the whole update.)
Our Relic is better than nothing, but paradoxically makes the Big Choppa worse in at least one regard - Changing a flat 2 damage to d3 damage is a handicap that will make the Warboss using it worse.  It's probably still a better weapon thanks to the better AP (AP-2 as opposed to -1,) and the chance for Mortal Wounds on a 6+ to wound, but honestly it's a huge disappointment.
Our Warlord Trait is worse. +1 Strength is absolute garbage. On a Big Choppa Warboss, it only helps against S8, on a Power Klaw Warboss, it only helps against T7, and on anyone else it doesn't matter in the slightest, because you don't want your Weirdboys or Big Meks to get into Close Combat.
Our Strategems? One is extremely situational, the other is complete crap. Bonus attacks on 6+ to hit in shooting is crap, because we don't get enough shots with enough accuracy for that to matter, and unlike a lot of other factions, we don't even have any way to get +1 To Hit to help with that.
Mob Up is better, combining squads, but it requires pretty specific circumstances and is generally kind of crummy.


All in all, the Imperial updates are great, the Xenos one... Not so much.
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Offline BigToof

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Re: Chapter Approved - Thoughts and Commentary
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 09:18:33 PM »
I must say that Chapter Approved has caused a lot of drama that almost makes me question if it was all worth it...
Overall, it was just a bigger FAQ that could have been put out as a free PDF, but I'm not sure if it was just billed incorrectly.
If it had just said, "this will be little tweaks, nothing more" then I think people wouldn't have had big hopes.
But, it had been translated into "here's how we're going to balance everything" which was clearly not the intent.

After all, it still seems obvious that all Codex armies are superior to Index armies, and that makes sense as the Codex armies are supposed to be fully-fleshed out works.

So, I was suspicious when the hype that CA was getting was too high.
I still like playing 8th, but you have to bill things correctly otherwise the fanbase will eat you alive.

Best,
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Offline Waaaghpower

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Re: Chapter Approved - Thoughts and Commentary
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2017, 05:14:08 AM »
I must say that Chapter Approved has caused a lot of drama that almost makes me question if it was all worth it...
Overall, it was just a bigger FAQ that could have been put out as a free PDF, but I'm not sure if it was just billed incorrectly.
If it had just said, "this will be little tweaks, nothing more" then I think people wouldn't have had big hopes.
But, it had been translated into "here's how we're going to balance everything" which was clearly not the intent.

After all, it still seems obvious that all Codex armies are superior to Index armies, and that makes sense as the Codex armies are supposed to be fully-fleshed out works.

So, I was suspicious when the hype that CA was getting was too high.
I still like playing 8th, but you have to bill things correctly otherwise the fanbase will eat you alive.

Best,
-BT
I mean, I'm not gonna compare CA armies to Codex armies, but even if we go along with the 'little tweaks, nothing more' angle, that poses some serious problems.

Firstly, Forgeworld points got even more imbalanced. Tons of bad units got inexplicable point hikes. Decent units, meanwhile, got point hikes totally out of proportion with their quality. (Unless you actually believe that, say, Sokar Stormbirds deserved to have their cost trippled.)

Secondly, as far as a 'course correction' goes, it really... Doesn't. They're still demonstrating a complete inability to write good Orks rules, by giving a relic that sometimes is worse than the base weapon and by offering a Warlord Trait that is vastly unhelpful for the options we have available.


Also, Forge World promised that oop units who lacked rules would get datasheets in Chapter Approved. This is clearly not true, meaning my Kustom Battle Fortress will be shelved for at least another year. Yaaaaaay.
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