Author Topic: 6th Edition WTFs?  (Read 40007 times)

Offline Scout Sergeant Mkoll

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2012, 09:07:07 PM »
That is incorrect.
No unit can assault from reserves without the Heroic Intervention rule. That is fact. The Webway Portal, Outflank, Deep Strike, it doesn't matter how you do it, you can't charge.
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Offline Tactical Genius

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2012, 09:52:56 PM »
I will do some more reading. However i think that what i am saying holds water. as both the lucius  and regular drop pod now have the same special rule they must surly work the same way.
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Offline Scout Sergeant Mkoll

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2012, 10:04:29 PM »
I will do some more reading. However i think that what i am saying holds water. as both the lucius  and regular drop pod now have the same special rule they must surly work the same way.

No they must not. If that's the case then my Wyches can now charge from a Raider when it Deep Strikes because it has the Assault Vehicle special rule. A unit could charge from a Land Raider if a commander is lucky enough to get Outflank as his trait. However this is NOT the case, therefore you can NOT charge from a Drop Pod the turn it lands. Unless you have the Heroic Intervention special rule.
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Offline Tactical Genius

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2012, 10:57:58 PM »
I dont see any reason why any unit embarked on any :) assult vehicle cannont assult as that is the assult vehice special rule.
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Offline Rej

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2012, 11:32:05 PM »
I dont see any reason why any unit embarked on any :) assult vehicle cannont assult as that is the assult vehice special rule.

Normally they can, but this isn't normally. The reserves rules state that no charges, NONE, can be made after coming on from reserves, ie normal reserves, outflanking or DEEP STRIKING. A unit inside a drop pod counts as having deep struck, therefore the unit inside cannot assault. The exact same in the last edition.

Lucius pattern is different as it has a specific rule that says a unit inside can assault after deep striking, regular drop pods do no state this.

There a lots and lots of reasons for why you can't assault out of an assault vehicle. Like moving more then 6" (which a drop pod counts as doing). If you could assault out of an assault vehicle all of the time no matter what, my Dark Eldar raiders would move 12" then move flat out 18" and then I'd assault like crazy. Which would be stupid.

So in summary. You can't assault out of drop pods.
They deep strike. You disembark up to 6" (or it might be 3", they might just count it as a wreck for purposes of forced disembarkation). Then you can shoot or run. No charges allowed.
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Offline JimmyWolf

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2012, 12:31:27 AM »
They deep strike. You disembark up to 6" (or it might be 3", they might just count it as a wreck for purposes of forced disembarkation). Then you can shoot or run. No charges allowed.

It's a normal disembarkation, so they can move 6". It's forced, but it's not the same kind of forced disembarkation as the vehicle is not wrecked and that appears to be the only reason why it would half your disembark movement. This actually makes Drop Pods more reliable than they already were, as you can now safely place them in an area where the occupants are able to do the most damage without the risk of it flying off the board.

What I find is the biggest WTF is that Tau vehicles are now able to win a combat using their Flechette Dischargers. If nothing manages to damage them, and they wound models then the models may end up running away, because all vehicles are now able to win in Close Combat and I'm fairly sure those wounds would count towards combat res as they happen during an assault...... Right?


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Offline Scout Sergeant Mkoll

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2012, 11:15:57 AM »
What I find is the biggest WTF is that Tau vehicles are now able to win a combat using their Flechette Dischargers. If nothing manages to damage them, and they wound models then the models may end up running away, because all vehicles are now able to win in Close Combat and I'm fairly sure those wounds would count towards combat res as they happen during an assault...... Right?[/quote]You are correct. Dark Eldar Envenomved Blades allow for a similar thing. Although they are much less likely to work because unlike Flechettes they're abhorrently broken, but that's another topic. :P
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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2012, 08:50:44 PM »
I was just talking with some dudes in the store and we started talking about the barrel-rolling Monolith as I sparked the question; "How does a monolith jink if the fluff says that it is an indominable vehicle?"

Offline Arguleon-veq

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2012, 12:20:55 AM »
My biggest 6th Ed WTF was just how obvious it is that GW care nothing for balance at all with their new flyer rules. Now I am not somebody that usually complains about anything being broken or about balance, I play in a competative environment so Im used to seeing broken combos etc and dont really care but the new rules totally invalidated so many armies because of one thing:

Flyers

All GW had to do to make the game fair was include minor anti flyer measures in the FAQ's they released. All Missiles get Flak Fire rounds, Tau Seeker Missiles are anti air, Hive Guard can fire 1 shot each instead of 2 in order to hit flyers at normal BS. The rest is ok as GK, BA, Necrons, Guard all have their own good flyers anyway, Orks get lootas. Thats all they needed to do and it is very clear that they didn't, simply because they know people HAVE to buy flyers to stay competative. The other reason they didnt is so that people without a good grasp of the rules would go and buy fortifications or defense lines with the gun platforms as their anti flyer options [which doesnt work as they are T7 2 wound models that will be dead turn 1 before any flyers arrive anyway, if you could join a unit to them and make them count as an artillery piece that would work fine, but you cant].

So they have totally ruined game balance on purpose. Of course once flyer sales go through the roof, everyone will start getting very effective anti flyer [everyone gets Flak Missiles in an FAQ or something].

The measures some armies have to go to just to get slight and not even very effective anti air is stupid. Nids can do it well if they take as many psykers as they can and give them all extra powers and hope to roll as many 'puppet master' results as possible. All I have for my Wolves is to take Njal and hope to get lucky with his whole storm thing.

The whole ally thing doesnt help either unless you take 3 Vendettas as any single ally flyer will be outclassed by your opponent having at least 3 flyers. Hydras dont work because flyers just kill  them on the turn they come on.

Pretty frustrating, im not going to buy any flyers for about a year untill the metagame really settles down and we see how they stand with later FAQ's and Codex.
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Offline knightperson

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2012, 03:46:03 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this one to me. I'm reading over the description of Beasts, and it says they are never slowed by difficult terrain, even when charging. Fair enough, but why the heck give them Move Through Cover? Is it so you can attach an IC to a squad of Beasts (or an IC Beast to a regular one if such a thing exists) and give Move Through Cover to the non-beasts?
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Offline Cammerz

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2012, 06:22:33 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this one to me. I'm reading over the description of Beasts, and it says they are never slowed by difficult terrain, even when charging. Fair enough, but why the heck give them Move Through Cover? Is it so you can attach an IC to a squad of Beasts (or an IC Beast to a regular one if such a thing exists) and give Move Through Cover to the non-beasts?

The 'Move Through Cover' special rule specifically states that it has no effect on charge range rolls, the description of Beasts says that they can move through that terrain even when charging, so there is a slight difference which makes it better for them.
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Offline knightperson

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2012, 06:39:50 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this one to me. I'm reading over the description of Beasts, and it says they are never slowed by difficult terrain, even when charging. Fair enough, but why the heck give them Move Through Cover? Is it so you can attach an IC to a squad of Beasts (or an IC Beast to a regular one if such a thing exists) and give Move Through Cover to the non-beasts?

The 'Move Through Cover' special rule specifically states that it has no effect on charge range rolls, the description of Beasts says that they can move through that terrain even when charging, so there is a slight difference which makes it better for them.

If their "move full distance without being slowed by terrain" was only in the assault phase, then Move Through Cover would make sense. However, doesn't the rulebook say they are not slowed by difficult terrain even when charging? That says to me that they're not slowed by terrain in the movement phase either. Since they're not slowed by terrain in the movement phase, what the heck is the point of Move Through Cover???
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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2012, 07:03:27 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this one to me. I'm reading over the description of Beasts, and it says they are never slowed by difficult terrain, even when charging. Fair enough, but why the heck give them Move Through Cover? Is it so you can attach an IC to a squad of Beasts (or an IC Beast to a regular one if such a thing exists) and give Move Through Cover to the non-beasts?

The 'Move Through Cover' special rule specifically states that it has no effect on charge range rolls, the description of Beasts says that they can move through that terrain even when charging, so there is a slight difference which makes it better for them.

If their "move full distance without being slowed by terrain" was only in the assault phase, then Move Through Cover would make sense. However, doesn't the rulebook say they are not slowed by difficult terrain even when charging? That says to me that they're not slowed by terrain in the movement phase either. Since they're not slowed by terrain in the movement phase, what the heck is the point of Move Through Cover???


Move through cover essentially gives them the ability to automatically pass Dangerous terrain tests. This means that if there is a dangerous terrain between them an their target, they will be able to go full speed ahead without worrying about the dangerous terrain at all. IF it is any other unit, they will have to take a dangerous terrain test to get through that terrain. That's the only reason why the beasts have Move through Cover.

Read every part of the rules properly and it will explain itself.


Offline knightperson

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2012, 07:05:42 PM »
Move Through Cover means auto-pass dangerous terrain? I wonder how I missed that! I must have been more tired than I thought when I read that rule.
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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: 6th Edition WTFs?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2012, 07:12:43 PM »
Move Through Cover means auto-pass dangerous terrain? I wonder how I missed that! I must have been more tired than I thought when I read that rule.

Move Through Cover as described by the rulebook on pg 40;

Quote
A unit that is at least one model with this special rule rolls and extra D6 when rolling to move through difficult terrain. In most circumstances , this will mean that the unit rolls 3D6s and picks the highest roll. Furthermore, a model with Move Through Cover special rule automatically passes Dangerous Terain tests. The Move Through Cover special rule has ho effect on charge range rolls or Impact tests.