Hunting lances

[Mabbz]

Simple question really, have hunting lances been changed by the new edition? They aren't mentioned in the FAQ so as I see it, there are the following options:

1) codex overules rulebook, hunting lance ignore armour saves but do not have an AP value.

2) hunting lances are power weapons, which apparantly makes them AP3 under the new rules. The argument for this was that all power weapons now use the profile given in the main rulebook as power swords unless the FAQ's say otherwise, which would make hunting lances into S5 power swords.

[Narric]

This is kinda covered on Rulebook page 61, Unusual Power Weapons.

This means that the first charge a unit of rough riders make, their attacks are treated as being S5, I5, and AP3. And this ability cannot be used a second time in-game.

Hope that helps.

[Mabbz]

Thanks. I don't have the 6th edition rulebook yet and I missed that when I was reading through a friends copy yesterday. I was hoping for AP2 (Didn't make any difference in my games yesterday, he rolled high enough to pass his invulnerable saves anyway) but I guess I have to keep then away from terminators now  .

[Narric]

Being higher strength than their toughness could tip it in your favour.

Rough Riders seem better against regular Space Marines. The only army they'd be fairly useless against is a Deathwing Dark Angel Army, or a Terminator-heavy Grey Knight Force.

Another thing to remember is that Rough Riders also have "Hammer of Wrath," which works similarly to Impact Hits in Fantasy. And Fleet means they have higher chance of getting into combat.

[DEF Knight]

there is an entry for power weapon lances/spears in the main rulebook. On the charge they're +1S/AP3, once stuck in they're "S as user"/AP4.

I recall someone saying flat stat modification is the last step in the stat modifying arithmetic? If so that means they wouldn't get the +1, but was Furious Charge provided by rough rider special character ever FAQ'd? That'd be a good precedent to quote (also he gives rage, if it all works together thats 3 Strength 6 ap3 attacks on the charge at I5 per model, after your strength 3 hammer of wrath hits!)

still a little upset psyker battle squads dont get access to the psychic power list. was looking forward to massive psyker spam, especially for lolCoteaz lists...

[Mabbz]

there is an entry for power weapon lances/spears in the main rulebook. On the charge they're +1S/AP3, once stuck in they're "S as user"/AP4.

Well, the FAQ doesn't mention hunting lances (Whereas with eviscerators we are specifically told to use the main rulebook's rules) so I'm still not sure what rules to use. These appear to be the options:

• Ignore the rulebook, follow the codex rules.
• One-use S5 I5 power sword (since I heard that power weapons all count as power swords now unless stated otherwise)
• Power lance/spear, as per rulebook

I recall someone saying flat stat modification is the last step in the stat modifying arithmetic? If so that means they wouldn't get the +1, but was Furious Charge provided by rough rider special character ever FAQ'd? That'd be a good precedent to quote (also he gives rage, if it all works together thats 3 Strength 6 ap3 attacks on the charge at I5 per model, after your strength 3 hammer of wrath hits!)

Furious charge increases the models strength, and therefore doesn't effect the fixed strength of the Codex lance anyway. It would only work if we were using the new rules for power lances, in which case it would bump them up to S5.

[Cammerz]

(since I heard that power weapons all count as power swords now unless stated otherwise)

Actually, the rulebook says to base the weapon type on the model itself, in most cases this would be a power sword but my chaos terminator squad includes two power axes and a power maul because they are the parts included in the kit.

[Narric]

Guys, the HUNTING Lance is classed as an "Unusual Power Weapon" and would follow the rules of such weapons. I've already stated this.

The Hunting Lance entry is quite specific in that it is a once-per-game use, where-as a Power Lance as laid out by the Core Rulebook, gets used continously, and can be used for multiple charges/assaults.

This means, the Hunting can only follow the base rule for power weapons, which is AP3, when its used. And when its used, it makes the user S5 and I5. It is single use.

[Carrelio]

Does it say it's a power weapon in its rules, or does it just say it ignored armour?  Because I'd argue there is a difference between a weapon that ignores armour and a power weapon. Weapons that were intended to be power weapons are stated as such in their rules (eg. "this weapon counts as a power weapon with the following additions...), but some weapons were clearly written (and not FAQed) to ignore armour (eg. this weapon ignores armour and...).

[Masked Thespian]

Does it say it's a power weapon in its rules, or does it just say it ignored armour?  Because I'd argue there is a difference between a weapon that ignores armour and a power weapon. Weapons that were intended to be power weapons are stated as such in their rules (eg. "this weapon counts as a power weapon with the following additions...), but some weapons were clearly written (and not FAQed) to ignore armour (eg. this weapon ignores armour and...).

The thing is that ignoring armour and being a power weapon were all but synonymous in the last 3 editions of the game. It is entirely possible that such wording was missed out in this transition, and making the argument that the two terms, now no longer having the same meaning, should be taken as indication that they are distinctly different is being more than a little hardheaded about it.

[Narric]

Let me quote, becuase no-one seems to be listening.

when they charge into close combat, a unit armed with Hunting Lances count as being armed with POWER WEAPONS that strike at Strength and Initiative 5.

It states they are Power Weapons, very clearly. They have unique characteristics, meaning they fall under the "unusual Power Weapons" ruling, as described on page 61 of the Core Rulebook. They are AP3.

I have said this mutliple times now, can you please stop ignoring what I'm saying.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Seems pretty clear to me then. Power Weapons with added bonuses.