Lash of Submission odd combo.

[crisis_vyper]

Just two days ago while I was reading my rulebook in the friendly neighbourhood LGS, I stumbled upon another way in which units could get down from ruins without needing to roll for difficult terrain, albeit a much more dangerous route. The text that are bolded will come into play later

As stated in page 99 of the BRB;

A unit that is not falling back and descending through a building can always elect to Leap Down to a lower level, rather than making a Difficult Terrain Test. However, all descending models in the unit must take an Impact test (see page 95).

And what is an Impact test? For this we refer to page 95 of the BRB;

To resolve this, choose one model from the battlements and place it anywhere wholly within 3" of the base of the building that is at least 1" away from enemy models, and not in Impassable or lethal terrain. That model must then take an impact test. This is exactly like a Dangerous Terrain test, with a -1 modifier for every full 3" the model has dropped. Unlike ordinary Dangerous Terrain test, armour saves cannot be taken against Impact test. Jump INfantry and Jetpack models must still take impact test but they ignore any modifiers from falling 3 or more inches

If the model is slain, choose another model and try again. If the model survives, resolve the same sequence for all the other models in the unit, taking care to remain in unit coherency. Any models that cannot be placed for whatever reason, are removed as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed.

It was then that I realized something kinda evil too, as I remembered the wording of Lash of Submission  from the FAQ but just in case I went ahead and talked about the terrain test in itself first, and allow one of the LGS staff who is knowledgeable about 40k to somehow spark the idea. And soon enough he told me about the thought that I have out loud; you can definitely lash people from ruins down to their deaths.

This in itself makes the Lash of Submission quite a deadly counter to all those happy campers up on the ruins as they will be forced by the player who move the unit on whether they will walk down or jump, and obviously with such a deadly effect, the moving player would elect for the unit to jump down. Any type of test that could kill people off is not pretty, and with such modifiers to the test you could kill quite a few people off too. And this is before the pain of the enemy shooting comes into being and other nonsense.

Nasty, nasty, nasty........

[Narric]

Ah, another good reason to stay to the ground or first level of the building, aside from being able to skidadle out of enemy range quickly.

This will affect Chaos in turn, as it will make Lash Sorcerors/Princes a higher priority target.

[Masked Thespian]

Just two days ago while I was reading my rulebook in the friendly neighbourhood LGS, I stumbled upon another way in which units could get down from ruins without needing to roll for difficult terrain, albeit a much more dangerous route. The text that are bolded will come into play later

As stated in page 99 of the BRB;

A unit that is not falling back and descending through a building can always elect to Leap Down to a lower level, rather than making a Difficult Terrain Test. However, all descending models in the unit must take an Impact test (see page 95).

And what is an Impact test? For this we refer to page 95 of the BRB;

To resolve this, choose one model from the battlements and place it anywhere wholly within 3" of the base of the building that is at least 1" away from enemy models, and not in Impassable or lethal terrain. That model must then take an impact test. This is exactly like a Dangerous Terrain test, with a -1 modifier for every full 3" the model has dropped. Unlike ordinary Dangerous Terrain test, armour saves cannot be taken against Impact test. Jump INfantry and Jetpack models must still take impact test but they ignore any modifiers from falling 3 or more inches

If the model is slain, choose another model and try again. If the model survives, resolve the same sequence for all the other models in the unit, taking care to remain in unit coherency. Any models that cannot be placed for whatever reason, are removed as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed.

It was then that I realized something kinda evil too, as I remembered the wording of Lash of Submission  from the FAQ but just in case I went ahead and talked about the terrain test in itself first, and allow one of the LGS staff who is knowledgeable about 40k to somehow spark the idea. And soon enough he told me about the thought that I have out loud; you can definitely lash people from ruins down to their deaths.

This in itself makes the Lash of Submission quite a deadly counter to all those happy campers up on the ruins as they will be forced by the player who move the unit on whether they will walk down or jump, and obviously with such a deadly effect, the moving player would elect for the unit to jump down. Any type of test that could kill people off is not pretty, and with such modifiers to the test you could kill quite a few people off too. And this is before the pain of the enemy shooting comes into being and other nonsense.

Nasty, nasty, nasty........

I was of the understanding that buildings were not ruins and vice versa.  Now, I've not fully digested the new rulebook yet, so there might be something in there that I've missed, but by the quotes that have been given in this thread, units in ruins should be safe.

[Narric]

MT, logically speaking, wouldn't a unit in a Runi be less safe? A building is intact, and the only deadly thing would be its height. Ruins have all sorts of masonry and misc that to the unfortunate could prove fatal.

And aren't intact building technically inpassable, unless you and your opponent agree on rules for each individual building pre-game. So you wouldn't be able to make a unit pass through a building anyway.

[crisis_vyper]

Just two days ago while I was reading my rulebook in the friendly neighbourhood LGS, I stumbled upon another way in which units could get down from ruins without needing to roll for difficult terrain, albeit a much more dangerous route. The text that are bolded will come into play later

As stated in page 99 of the BRB;

A unit that is not falling back and descending through a building can always elect to Leap Down to a lower level, rather than making a Difficult Terrain Test. However, all descending models in the unit must take an Impact test (see page 95).

And what is an Impact test? For this we refer to page 95 of the BRB;

To resolve this, choose one model from the battlements and place it anywhere wholly within 3" of the base of the building that is at least 1" away from enemy models, and not in Impassable or lethal terrain. That model must then take an impact test. This is exactly like a Dangerous Terrain test, with a -1 modifier for every full 3" the model has dropped. Unlike ordinary Dangerous Terrain test, armour saves cannot be taken against Impact test. Jump INfantry and Jetpack models must still take impact test but they ignore any modifiers from falling 3 or more inches

If the model is slain, choose another model and try again. If the model survives, resolve the same sequence for all the other models in the unit, taking care to remain in unit coherency. Any models that cannot be placed for whatever reason, are removed as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed.

It was then that I realized something kinda evil too, as I remembered the wording of Lash of Submission  from the FAQ but just in case I went ahead and talked about the terrain test in itself first, and allow one of the LGS staff who is knowledgeable about 40k to somehow spark the idea. And soon enough he told me about the thought that I have out loud; you can definitely lash people from ruins down to their deaths.

This in itself makes the Lash of Submission quite a deadly counter to all those happy campers up on the ruins as they will be forced by the player who move the unit on whether they will walk down or jump, and obviously with such a deadly effect, the moving player would elect for the unit to jump down. Any type of test that could kill people off is not pretty, and with such modifiers to the test you could kill quite a few people off too. And this is before the pain of the enemy shooting comes into being and other nonsense.

Nasty, nasty, nasty........

I was of the understanding that buildings were not ruins and vice versa.  Now, I've not fully digested the new rulebook yet, so there might be something in there that I've missed, but by the quotes that have been given in this thread, units in ruins should be safe.

The first part of the quote was taken from the ruins section in the rulebook.

[Chicop76]

If I understand correctly you lose models that is closet to the shooting unit and work your way back. If so lash can be used as a sniping tool which can be used to get rid of ico beares, sargents, beast masters and so forth.

Another thought is to lash your allies for better assault postioning or getting them out of harms way. Not sure since I glanced over allied rules.

[knightperson]

I'm pretty sure you can't Lash your allies. They are treated as "enemy units that you can't fire at" or something when desperate or convenient allies, and they are treated as friendlies for Brothers In Arms.

I think The Masque could also do the same trick. Making people jump out of windows in the thralls of The Dance would be cheesy, but very amusing. The other thing I like doing with The Masque is making a unit "mosh pit" together so my breath of chaos can hit more of them!

[Scoutfox]

I've heard of people using lash against the flying MCs and spinning them around, so they can't attack the next turn, with only a 90 degree turn.

[Masked Thespian]

Quote 1

It is important to note that these rules cover intact buildings rather than ruins.  Essentially, if your structure is fully enclosed and has a roof, use the rules presented here.  If your structure is merely a collection of ruined walls, then use the ruins rules presented on page 98.

Quote 2

Many buildings have flat roofs that can accommodate units - we refer to these as battlements.

Quote 3

A unit can always elect to leap down from the battlements, although this incurs significant risk.

Quote 4

That model must then take an Impact test.

Quote 5

If your unit is in the upper floors of a ruin and wants to get down in a hurry, the models can always jump down.

Quote 6

A unit that is not falling back and descending through a building can always elect to Leap Down to a lower level, rather than making a Difficult Terrain test.  However, all descending models in the unit must take an Impact test (see page 95).

So, by Quote 1, buildings and ruins are separate things, and rules affecting one do not affect the other (unless otherwise explicitly stated).  By Quote 2, Battlements are something that only buildings have.  By Quote 3, you can only jump down off of Battlements.

However, Quotes 5 and 6 allow units in ruins to use the (normally Battlements-only) Leap Down rules, referring specifically to Quote 4.

So, units in ruins can leap down, but not because they are "descending through a building" (misquoted), but because they are specifically allowed to in the rules for ruins (which were quoted, but incorrectly, leading to my own confusion in this matter).


As for Lash, the FAQ for it suggests that optional choices (such as the choice to use Jump Packs or not) are up to the mover, I.e. the player using Lash.  So I see no reason why units on Battlements or Ruins couldn't be made to leap to their doom, regardless of whether Ivan Ooze is telling them to do it or not.

Likewise, I don't see why Lash couldn't be used against Fliers.  Nasty, but true.

[Chicop76]

I was looking at the relic mission which if a unit moves over 6" they drop the relic. Since Lash average is 7" you have a good chance of forcing a unit to drop the relic by moving them over 6". This would be really good if you go second and use lash to force the relic holder to drop it at the end of turn forcing your opponent to lose 3 victory points at games end.

[Chicop76]

It just dawn on me you can lash putting the enemy in a strait line and than use jaws of the warp wolf with the unit is perfectly lined up.