Deathcult Assassins and two power weapons plus crusaders

[Chicop76]

Ok to my understanding that deathcult have two powerweapons which alows them to chose 4 types of weapons. That being so I was debating on the maul and a sword. My question is if they have both would they be Str 6 with 3 attacks on the charge at ap 3 or can switch between the weapon options. Like against armour 4 I can go in with str 6 attacks which can be raised to str 9 due to the grey knight options with +6 for armour pen. Honestly it would be str 8, but toughness 5 models would drop to toughness 4 and can be instant killed. Die you ork bikers. Anyway I thinking Maul and Axe would be nice if you have to go one or the other. Marines may be saving my maul attacks but I am wounding on 2s with I6. If I go last I have the option of using axes which I would wound them on 3s and igore their save. It will give me great option for different sittuations.

Storm shield crusaders may be more needed than before tx to over watch. Especally if asaulting units like flamers. Well here I think axes would be a nice weapon for them. They have crap int so they would probably go last any way and being str 4 would allow them to do some decent damage. To be honest I should say str 6 attacks that ignores all saves except invulnerable. The beautiful thing is they are actually better in this edition than in the last. Can't say the same for the Deathcult which against 4 armour armies they are better, and marines about the same, and worst against +2 saves.

[Wargamer]

Okay, first thing's first:

You can never, ever, ever, ever, ever stack weapons. This means that if you have a power sword and a power maul you are either attacking at AP3 or you are attacking at +2 Str AP4 Concussive. The weapons you are using must be declared before any attacks are rolled. You do, however, still get +1 attack for having two close combat weapons (unless some other rule states otherwise).

[Masked Thespian]

To be honest, Death Cult Assassin models come with Power Swords as standard.  If you convert those models to change your in-game benefits, then I think that's a little shady.  It's one thing when you have a plastic kit with a multitude of choices to glue in the model's hand, but when you have single-piece metal models, that have never had any other weapon options before (not in game terms; in model terms), then you're really kinda gaming the system to do what you're suggesting.

Take two Power Swords and be happy with it.

[Charistoph]

There's nothing shady about it, unless their gear is specifically listed as power swords and not the general power weapons.

[Cammerz]

To quote from the rulebook

If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has: if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance.

The model has two swords.

[Wargamer]

The 'shadiness' is in the fact that GW has not made, and likely never will make, a Death Cult Assassin with a power axe, maul or lance.

By contrast, they have made, say, Space Marine Veteran Sergeants with power axes or power mauls, so that suggests they are okay with them having such a weapon.

[Arguleon-veq]

They haven't made crusaders with mauls or axes but they would look undeniably cool and fluffy. I'm really tempted to convert 15 crusaders with axes because of this thread.

[Chicop76]

Thanx.

Looking at the faq for the witchhunter codex they have power weapons and not swords.

I got confused with the dreadknight and forgot it was a MC so it hit at ap 2 regardless of the weapon.

Honestly the conversion posiblities makes me happy. I am already making my crusaders from scratch using black templar models. Wait I think it was Dark Angel models. I have to look since I forgot I just know it's from the term heavy army.

With my death cult I was using the feel no pain eviserator models for my death cult. This now give my more options.

Maul or axes makes so much sense for crusaders to use.

With the death cult axes/ maul or swords are starting to look very promising. The axes is very helpful since the unit lack grenades and gives the unit terminator killing power. Maul is great anti horder while swords are great anti marine. I'm leaning towards the axe and maul combo with crusades hitting hiting last with axes would help against marines.

Thinking about it more I think throwing Jacob in the squad with a priest would be an excellant ideal. The feel no pain with the extra attacks plus re rolling to hit with the 4 differant power weapon options makes me want to droll. I mean a 10 man deathcult squad running into orcs with axes would dish out 40 attacks, with about 36 hits and dising out 30 wounds killing 30 orcs easy. Overwatch is a factor, but if even 5 get through that is 15 dead orcs.

[Arguleon-veq]

The deathcultists would lose to the orks if they have axes though because they will strike last.

For deathcults the best option is still powerswords. They can't afford to strike last and they don't really need the strength increase especially with GK as you can just hammerhand them.

Axes are the best choice for crusaders but it still doesn't actually make them very good in combat. They still get slaughtered by anything besides maybe normal tac marines. Orks, assault squads, grey hunters. Even thunder hammer termies despite your storm shield and AP2.

So it will look very cool but it doesn't really increase the effectiveness of either by much.

[Chicop76]

The deathcultists would lose to the orks if they have axes though because they will strike last.

For deathcults the best option is still powerswords. They can't afford to strike last and they don't really need the strength increase especially with GK as you can just hammerhand them.

Axes are the best choice for crusaders but it still doesn't actually make them very good in combat. They still get slaughtered by anything besides maybe normal tac marines. Orks, assault squads, grey hunters. Even thunder hammer termies despite your storm shield and AP2.

So it will look very cool but it doesn't really increase the effectiveness of either by much.

With deathcult I can see one pair of swords, but against Orcs the Maul helps the unit wound on 2s rather than on 4 and ignore the armour just the same with striking at the same time. I just saying if it is free to have a sword and maul for example why not take advatage of the possibilties.

With Greyknights besides a few models you lack close combat term killing. The sisters are even worst at. The axes gives them a second go to option. Also if you happen to be strinking through cover for example the axe turns into a better option than the sword.

With the Maul and Axe combo on the deathcult it gives them more options aginst almost any unit. 48 possible str 6 attacks will hurt. Even if the unit can save against it it's easily 20 plus wounds on any unit that is toughness 7 and lower. The beautiful part is that is without enhancements and just base powers. With greykingts that can turn into str 8 attacks easy with lowering toughness by one, although you lose the +1 atacks. Heck 30 str 80 attacks at +2d6 will take out any vehicle you like by the way.

I can see keeping a power sword, but the +2 strength still is very helpful. Instaed of 5 deathcult killing 5 marines it is reduced to 3 dead marines. The point is it is really and anti-horde option and also allow you to even do something against dreadnaughts as well.

I am loking for them with sisters as well since I have both armies. Even with grey knights the extra strength isn't a bad option.

[Arguleon-veq]

True it would be much more effective to give one of each, I think Death Cults with a Maul and Sword backed up by Crusaders with Axes is the best combo.

[Chicop76]

True it would be much more effective to give one of each, I think Death Cults with a Maul and Sword backed up by Crusaders with Axes is the best combo.

When you put it down that way it seems that would be a gooal. That way you are using 3 differant power weapons for differant situations.