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Would you be in favor of reimplementing a "like"/"Approve Post" system?

Strongly in favor
10 (50%)
Somwehwat in favor
8 (40%)
Ambivalent/netural
0 (0%)
Somewhat against
0 (0%)
Strongly against
2 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Returning the 'post approval' system  (Read 7837 times)

Offline Lord Sotek

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Returning the 'post approval' system
« on: December 12, 2012, 07:56:08 pm »
So, it seems like there's a fair bit of sentiment in favor of reimplementing the now-vanished post approval system, where you could give a pseudo-facebookish-like thumbs up sort of thing to a post if you really thought it was champion stuff.

I feel like this would be a positive thing to bring back, at the very least in the Fluff and Stories, Battle Reports, and House Rules forums. Oftentimes, one wishes to show their esteem for a post or topic, but a full reply doesn't quite seem appropriate or justified. An approve button is a quick, easy and painless way to show your interest and respect without interrupting the flow of a topic.

This makes it ideal as a feedback source for batrep writers, fluffmeisters, and house rule homebrewers. Most of the time as it stands, one of us posts something, people look at it, but for whatever reason they don't feel compelled to respond. So from we contributors' end, it looks like there's no interest in or positive sentiment towards our efforts, which is a pretty unrewarding feeling. If we can check back and see that whoa, our story about Fistpumper McGee and the Fifty Hive Queens got a bunch of likes, that lets us feel proud of our efforts, happy about people seeing it, and inspired to go and write more.

I vaguely recall that some people weren't too keen on the fact that the old version of this system had a dislike option too and that it was anonymous, meaning that people could form a faceless crowd of peer pressure rejection against a post. I think if we were to reimplement it as a "+approve" only option, and especially if we could get it to tag who'd left their thumbs up (i.e. "BigToof, Isaac Baraqiel, and three others approved this post..." you'd sidestep that issue. If someone still really dislikes the post in question, they can go ahead and post their own response stating the fact and explaining why.

So... All in all, it's pretty clear that I'm in favor of reinstating it. What do the rest of you think?

Pollvote and post so we can get a good idea of the consensus view!
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

Offline The Allfather

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2012, 07:59:43 pm »
I never actually noticed that it went away until you just brought it up... I'm all for bringing it back, I think it was a pretty good system.

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 08:25:35 pm »
Im all for it. It definatly helps and I hate interupting an established flow just to say "I am The Man They Call Jayne and I approve this post." when a simple click can do that for me.
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Offline Paradoxrifts

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 05:53:22 pm »

Isn't the forum dead enough without giving people an easy out clause to contributing to any conversation they otherwise might have posted on?

Offline Lord Sotek

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 07:24:20 pm »
If we had a method that encouraged feedback by allowing people an easy means of positive feedback without having to write a post on the matter... You might see more feedback, and thus people encouraged to post more.
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

Offline Chicop76

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 12:18:08 am »

Isn't the forum dead enough without giving people an easy out clause to contributing to any conversation they otherwise might have posted on?

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Offline Irisado

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 12:25:44 pm »
Isn't the forum dead enough without giving people an easy out clause to contributing to any conversation they otherwise might have posted on?

Precisely.

The whole point of a forum is that it isn't Facebook.  If you have an opinion, then you post it, and you don't just type meaningless one liners like 'I agree', rather you explain why.

If you go down the road of having a like button, or equivalent, conversation and debate just dries up, and there's so little activity here anyway that you end up shooting yourself in the foot.
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Offline Lord Sotek

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 05:30:21 pm »
Well now, I rather like how you can predict exactly how I and everyone else is going to behave once this is re-implemented.  :facepalm001:

The kind of topics and posts people would be using this system for? Those'd be the tpics that... people just don't write replies to, as it stands, because those replies would be little more than "I agree" or "I like this," and as much as they'd like to voice their approval, they don't want to clutter up the thread with such short and content-lacking posts.

It isn't going to cause any less posting. It is going to cause people to be able to get their approval across where they would have remained silent otherwise, and I for one know that as an author, implementing this system and seeing approvals rather than nothing in response to a story I post? That's incentive for me to write and contribute -more,- not less.
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

Offline Mabbz

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 06:22:31 pm »
Isn't the forum dead enough without giving people an easy out clause to contributing to any conversation they otherwise might have posted on?

Precisely.

The whole point of a forum is that it isn't Facebook.  If you have an opinion, then you post it, and you don't just type meaningless one liners like 'I agree', rather you explain why.

If you go down the road of having a like button, or equivalent, conversation and debate just dries up, and there's so little activity here anyway that you end up shooting yourself in the foot.

With a bit of fine tuning, the system could avoid this. The main reason to have this system would be to approve stories, battle reports and hobby threads like army showcases. With this in mind, why not limit the system so that it can only be used in those boards? As I recall, it didn't work in the enclave before, so presumably it could be changed to not function in certain boards again. Also, maybe it could be unavailable for members with less than a hundred posts to ensure people have to contribute to use it.

Offline LinnScarlett

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 09:58:29 pm »
With a bit of fine tuning, the system could avoid this. The main reason to have this system would be to approve stories, battle reports and hobby threads like army showcases. With this in mind, why not limit the system so that it can only be used in those boards? As I recall, it didn't work in the enclave before, so presumably it could be changed to not function in certain boards again. Also, maybe it could be unavailable for members with less than a hundred posts to ensure people have to contribute to use it.

I think it would be a great idea, especially for those areas - a whole flow of "oh nice" and "awesomes" doesn't add much but padding (and ego ;)) to a thread showing models or a report. A like function would do that just as well without the cluttering of 'real' feedback/commentary that is meant to be found and read by the reporters/painters/whomever its directed at. Those that want to show they like the figure or report (or whatever it is), can do so using that feature, and those that want to comment or contribute, I imagine will comment or contribute anyway? It sure won't stop me from dropping a line if I have one to drop. But it would save me a whole lot of paging through "oh awesome" comments before reading some of the meaningful stuff. :)

In discussion areas or anything such, I am inclined to agree with the others that think thats a bad idea. You don't really need people to just say "omg yes/no" to what you have to say, if you're trying to have a discussion. Those with valuable things to say, will say so, those that don't will read and move on (or not read at all..). I am not sure how pulling a 'like' out of them, will make a difference, in any meaningful way.
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Offline Lord Sotek

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2012, 11:10:23 pm »
Isn't the forum dead enough without giving people an easy out clause to contributing to any conversation they otherwise might have posted on?

Precisely.

The whole point of a forum is that it isn't Facebook.  If you have an opinion, then you post it, and you don't just type meaningless one liners like 'I agree', rather you explain why.

If you go down the road of having a like button, or equivalent, conversation and debate just dries up, and there's so little activity here anyway that you end up shooting yourself in the foot.

With a bit of fine tuning, the system could avoid this. The main reason to have this system would be to approve stories, battle reports and hobby threads like army showcases. With this in mind, why not limit the system so that it can only be used in those boards? As I recall, it didn't work in the enclave before, so presumably it could be changed to not function in certain boards again. Also, maybe it could be unavailable for members with less than a hundred posts to ensure people have to contribute to use it.

This was my initial suggestion, actually, sorry if I didn't get that across clearly. I am indeed primarily advocating for the return of this function in the Fluff & Stories, Battle Reports, and Hobby subforums. Those are the boards where it strikes me there is a clear and clearly positive use for the mechanism.

Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

Offline LinnScarlett

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 11:21:21 pm »
In that case, I am all for. I personally prefer people to bother to write a comment, its always nicer to get feedback, but having a 'like' function does allow for quick reviews if people don't have much else to say than "oh nice/awesome/I like it".
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 11:35:09 am »
Well now, I rather like how you can predict exactly how I and everyone else is going to behave once this is re-implemented.  :facepalm001:

Based on how social media is used, it's a fairly safe prediction.  I've also seen a post approval system used on another forum, and it was binned because it caused users to reply less often.

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The kind of topics and posts people would be using this system for? Those'd be the tpics that... people just don't write replies to, as it stands, because those replies would be little more than "I agree" or "I like this," and as much as they'd like to voice their approval, they don't want to clutter up the thread with such short and content-lacking posts.

Ticking an 'I like' button is just as bad as writing spammish one liners, they should both be moderated as spamming.  The whole point of a forum is to discuss things.  If a user can't think of anything better to say than 'I agree', then it's better not to post, or click a button.

It's really not difficult to write a good reply.  It's easy to explain why you agree, why a paint scheme was good, which aspects of a battle report you enjoy, and how you might have done something differently.  All you would be doing by introducing a button is making users lazy, stopping them from having to think about how to make constructive replies, and reducing forum content and activity.  It's a really bad idea.

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It isn't going to cause any less posting. It is going to cause people to be able to get their approval across where they would have remained silent otherwise, and I for one know that as an author, implementing this system and seeing approvals rather than nothing in response to a story I post? That's incentive for me to write and contribute -more,- not less.

It will cause a drop off in posts, because people are, by nature, lazy.  If you give them a button to click, many of them will do so, and not bother to write anything.  This isn't Facebook.  It's supposed to be a discussion forum.  How do you generate discussion from like buttons?  You don't.

This falls into the same category as karma (another, in my view, useless feature).  You end up with likes, dislikes, good karma, and bad karma.  You never end up knowing why a person likes or dislikes your work, you never know why you received the karma which you did, and you don't get any constructive feedback at all.  It just turns into an ego contest as to who can get the most 'likes' or karma points.

Both systems do not encourage discussion, and nor do they promote any sort of community, so they serve no useful purpose in my view.

If you want more forum activity, then I suggest that other options are considered, because this sort of thing is, in my experience, completely the wrong way of going about things.
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Offline LinnScarlett

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 03:22:42 pm »
I can see where you're coming from, but I wonder what we could do to generate discussion? If someone makes a post/discussion/contribution, what will make people read it? Interest in battle reports, modelling, fictions, surely. If they are not interested, they won't go there. If they can't well put into words why they think something is good or bad, they might not post.

Don't underestimate the boundary breach of putting your opinion in words, where others can read it and link your name to it. Where you might make a fool out of yourself, or get ridiculed for having a weird/different opinion. Not everybody does that as lightly as perhaps you and I do.

The same goes for creating a constructive, good, non-offensive but helpful reply that doesn't beat around the bush. You need to be able to put into words what you thought and why you thought it, how it could be improved, or why it was bad (preferably both, tbh). As an example, I spend about 15-20 min writing my reply to one of Wargamers fiction post, trying to figure out why I thought the things I thought about it, what I felt could help make it be better, what I particularly really liked about his style, and so on.

I think, for discussion to happen on a discussion forum, you need people to make that step out into 'the open'. That their opinion matters, that we want to hear it, that its good to voice it, and that its great if you can contribute and help others through it. But thats a community thing, more than anything. Perhaps a 'like' button might cause people that made short replies, or no replies, to press it and not reply at all. But it leaves me wondering, would they have made the step to meaningful discussion posts/replies anyway? I don't know. It all comes down to the kind of person behind the PC. I agree that a 'like' button isn't facilitating, but if people are too lazy to post, then what are they doing here? A discussion is two-way traffic, and artists (be they battlereport writers or modellers) like constructive feedback, which require a two-way responsive community. It's a difficult issue. I don't know this community well enough to adequately make a stand on the impact a 'like' button might have, but I don't think it should be over-stated. People that are involved and make constructive replies or discussions, won't stop doing so out of instant-lazy. It doesn't facilitate the lazy to post. But then, what does?

(Drat, wall of text again...  :facepalm001:)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:27:42 pm by Linn Scarlett »
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Offline Lord Sotek

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Re: Returning the 'post approval' system
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 08:47:29 am »
Based on how social media is used, it's a fairly safe prediction.  I've also seen a post approval system used on another forum, and it was binned because it caused users to reply less often.

You are still presuming to dictate to me (and I mean that in a generic sense, extended to all the forum's users) what my future actions will be as if you know better than we do, however.

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Ticking an 'I like' button is just as bad as writing spammish one liners, they should both be moderated as spamming.  The whole point of a forum is to discuss things.  If a user can't think of anything better to say than 'I agree', then it's better not to post, or click a button.

Replying "I agree" or even "I agree because X" breaks up a thread's content-posts, and often comes across as inane, so people don't do it. Not doing it? Good for spam, bad for author having an idea of whether people give a damn about what they wrote or not. The internet is faceless; a writer can't know if people see or care about or like their material unless said people leave a mark of somekind.

Ticking an "I thought this was neat" button lets the author know they've garnered positive or interested attention. It doesn't interrupt a thread. It doesn't have to make a relatively contentless and inane statement to convey the message.

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It's really not difficult to write a good reply.  It's easy to explain why you agree, why a paint scheme was good, which aspects of a battle report you enjoy, and how you might have done something differently.  All you would be doing by introducing a button is making users lazy, stopping them from having to think about how to make constructive replies, and reducing forum content and activity.  It's a really bad idea.
So we're all lazybad forumgoers for not wanting to have to write an analysis paper just to let someone know we exist, took a look, and thought their story or art or whatever was neat?

And like buttons are simultaneously bad because you assume they mean people will get lazier and stop writing the posts... that they don't write, anyways, and never did, and that you're griping about their laziness in not writing?

Can you see how silly and self-contradicting that sounds?


I would also point out that Aristotle was similarly against the spread of writing and literacy, as they meant people would no longer have to go to the effort of memorization in order to have knowledge, and he believed this would make people lazy and stupid.

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It will cause a drop off in posts, because people are, by nature, lazy.  If you give them a button to click, many of them will do so, and not bother to write anything.  This isn't Facebook.  It's supposed to be a discussion forum.  How do you generate discussion from like buttons?  You don't.

You are bemoaning the supposed loss of posts which do not exist in the first place.
NOW: If you have something to discuss, you post about it.

If you don't have something particular to discuss, just saw and liked the material, you do nothing because you have no response options other than undesirably cluttering up the thread with noncontent, and so the author sees nothing. It feels like no one is taking an interest in their work. Why keep writing when no one seems to take an interest?

WITH A LIKE BUTTON?
If you have something to discuss, you post about it.
If you don't have anything in particular to discuss or contribute, and you don't want to clutter up the thread, but you do want to show your interest and appreciation, you hit a like button. The author sees that X number of people have hit the like button and feels good about their work and the fact that they can observe people taking an interest in it. If the writer is anything at all like me, this is an impetus to write more and post more.

There is no loss of posting or discussion. There is the addition of a means to express something you could not express effectively before.

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This falls into the same category as karma (another, in my view, useless feature).  You end up with likes, dislikes, good karma, and bad karma.  You never end up knowing why a person likes or dislikes your work, you never know why you received the karma which you did, and you don't get any constructive feedback at all.  It just turns into an ego contest as to who can get the most 'likes' or karma points.

I disagree strongly. Karma is not handed out like candy; it is gained through meaningful contribution to the forum. Someone's karma sum gives a general idea of the degree to which they are involved in contributing quality content, effort, or services to the forum and its community. It is positive reinforcement towards a cordially behaved and productive forum community.

In my observational experience, the mods are really good about specifying is when, where, and what you got your karma point for. Especially if it's bad karma, because then they want to explain precisely how you goofed so that you won't repeat the same mistake and cause them headaches.



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Both systems do not encourage discussion, and nor do they promote any sort of community, so they serve no useful purpose in my view.
Neither do avatars or vanity custom-titles. Are you going to tell me we should ditch those next, because they encourage people to be lazy by selecting a picture to distingush themselves as a user, rather than distinguishing themselves through posting and discussing stuff? Or that it's just an ego contest between who can get the spiffiest avatar/custom title?

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If you want more forum activity, then I suggest that other options are considered, because this sort of thing is, in my experience, completely the wrong way of going about things.

Please do enlighten us on some of these other options then, though I should give fair warning that if they seem to consist of "Stop being so lazy you bad lazy people" I will grab a pair of socks and be on my way towards buying a pewter Dreadnought to go with them.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:51:13 am by Isaac Baraqiel »
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my