News:

For the most up to date reports about what is going on with the forum, and the latest topics of interest, throw us a like on Facebook, and if you're wanting some light banter with the seasoned and spiced members, join the Second Sphere Members Group.

Main Menu

6th Edition Tau - Tweaks of the Characters

Started by Narric, January 01, 2013, 02:10:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Scout Sergeant Mkoll

Quote from: Chicop76 on January 03, 2013, 09:13:27 PM
Aun'shi had the power to parry attacks. If he forfeit on of his attacks it will deny an attacking unit 1 attack at minimum of one. Aun'Shi has 4 attacks from what I remembered and to start getting your extra attacks to hit him beyond only having one attack you would need at least 6 attacks. In 3rd I had locked Necrons, Dark Eldar, Marines, etc in close combat this way. Instead of units like daemonettes having 40 attacks on the charge they would have 10.
Except that's completely and utterly retarded. You should only be able to parry as many attacks as you sacrifice in total, not per enemy model. I don't care how good you are, if you're facing 10 foes you physically can't parry that much.

Admittedly, I don't know Farsight's fluff, but a Tau model which can beat up Marine commanders "no problem" really doesn't fit with the Tau race.

Yes Bile can boost WS, but that's through genetic manipulation not "because it's Bile". There's a considerable difference there.
Mkoll's Awesome Card Counter: +8

May the brave be remembered forever. Farewell our friends.

Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

[img]http

The Man They Call Jayne

The Dawn Blade should simply Deny Armour Saves. No AP involved.
Jaynes Awesome Card Counter: +5

Secondspheres Crash Card Counter +4



Chicop76

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on January 03, 2013, 10:00:23 PM
The Dawn Blade should simply Deny Armour Saves. No AP involved.

Actually I like that better. I still would like to see armourbane. Bias from me there since he is my favorate character. I think he might be my first one or Aun'Shi. Could had got them together.

Quote from: Warmaster Russ on January 03, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
Quote from: Chicop76 on January 03, 2013, 09:13:27 PM
Aun'shi had the power to parry attacks. If he forfeit on of his attacks it will deny an attacking unit 1 attack at minimum of one. Aun'Shi has 4 attacks from what I remembered and to start getting your extra attacks to hit him beyond only having one attack you would need at least 6 attacks. In 3rd I had locked Necrons, Dark Eldar, Marines, etc in close combat this way. Instead of units like daemonettes having 40 attacks on the charge they would have 10.
Except that's completely and utterly retarded. You should only be able to parry as many attacks as you sacrifice in total, not per enemy model. I don't care how good you are, if you're facing 10 foes you physically can't parry that much.

Admittedly, I don't know Farsight's fluff, but a Tau model which can beat up Marine commanders "no problem" really doesn't fit with the Tau race.

Yes Bile can boost WS, but that's through genetic manipulation not "because it's Bile". There's a considerable difference there.

Maybe that is why Aun'shi was dropped. No one was taking Etherals at all and was only fielding him. The typical though was I enter close combat with Tau and they are done. Once he started his parry attack denial move people went WTF. Than I let them read my book with them saying that is retarded and utter BS. I in the meantime smiled locking that unit in endless combat. I thought it was funny when my whole army is wiped from the board and Aun'Shi is still there blocking attacks like a ninja fool. He was very hard to kill in combat and thanks to re rolling morale it helped the unit stay there. It is not as effective it was than as it is now. Back than if you where in base you get your full attacks and acess to gear while the rest was pitch in attacks with no bonus from gear and it was just 1 attack. Meaning more special weapon attacks would get through.

My problem unless you attached them to broadsides Etherals is the armies target. With 3rd I could deal with a whole army bearing down on that on single unit. Now it is hard to keep him alive with the crazy stuff out there now. Aun'Shi comes back I will field an etheral again.

I see your point with the upgrade issue. The problem is do you write a differant stat line for O'Shova troops rather than the standard. The upgrade option would allow you to have veterans opposing to the green or former Tau that has joined O'Shova ranks. I get the preferred thing which th intent has changed. Instead of being decent in hth with orcs it turned O'Shova shooting crazy against Orcs. Everything is basically twin linked against orcss. If orcs charge that's a twin linked 6s to hit them.

Standard Tau 12 men rapid fire Orcs.
24 shots
12 hit
8 dead Orcs

O'Shova Tau same thing
24 shots
18 hit
12 dead Orcs

That makes Tau more effective against Orcs which O'Shova forces is supposed to be more close quartered than ranged like normal Tau. The rules as they stand reflect we will rape you from range and when you get in combat we will do better than out other Tau brothers. Thanks to Orcs losing that int bonus they strike at the same time as Tau lol. Which means Orcs hit on 3s against Tau's re rollable 4s. Makes a huge differance if they up against str 5 or 4 suits with 2-3 attacks each by the way.

I think the preferred enemy rule is now not what they should have. Although it can be arguged they do fight a lot of Orcs all the time. Still bonus to range shouldn't be there I believe. Like reducing O'Shova bs to 4 should be evident of that.


Narric

I'm going to reply to each post in turn. I hope there is a high enough Character count for it....

Quote from: Chicop76 on January 03, 2013, 08:24:50 PM
Spoiler
I would like to see Aun'Shi from the last codex. He would do really well in a challenge especially if his fire warriors are cheering him on. In a chalenge with 12 fire warriors and something like a single archon he would be unkillable. The Archon would only have roughly 2 attacks to hit him and he will have 2 re rolls on his +4 invulnerable. Killing him at range would be the best option which Tau is supposedto excell at. I still have his model which is nicely painted and would like to use him again. At least in fluff tell us what happen to him. I think he should be included back as a character since he was a founding Tau character along with O'Shova and I think Anglar Proc( which whould be cool to have him back too, although I can't remember if he was a white dwarf or codex character)

O'Shova army I would like the 5 point ws and I upgrade back. Too exepnsive on fire warriors, but was very useful on bodyguard and upgraded character suits. I think the upgrade for me at least would be nice to have again or something similar besides having preferred enemy orcs. O'Shova troops are supposedly more close combat orientated. I get the Orc thing, but feel it would be a generalized stat change like the orignial book version was.

The Dawn blade I always felt it should provide somethin like armourbane. His only weapon besides that is a plasma and besides that he lacks anti-vehicle which makes him less appealing.

I think he should go back to having bs 5 since he is still Tau and I doubt his plasma skills have gotten worst. I would like him to be WS 6 though. His fluff I think would support the 6. I think 4 is typically almost average, 5 is like typical sargents, and 6 is your heroes and higher. Without looking 4 is the norm for a tau Shas'O and from the older book they could be 5 on par with O'Shova. I could be wrong since I am not looking at my books at the moment. O'Shova is the exception and I think he should surpass any other Tau's WS which Aun'shi had a 5 I think.

Another thought into O'Shova is that I think his personal body guard at least should have better melee stats. Not ranging into 7 which I thought was silly. His personal guard may or should have access to close combat weapons( not power).

Also ap 1 seems a bit much for the Dawn Blade. I would go with a 2 which seems fair. A one is simply vehicle destruction. Bad enough you have ranged weapons that's ap1 and now a suit commander with the same level or more destructive power than a rail gun.

I think he should have 5 attacks or have the O's lowered to 3. Since FW have toughness 5 suits I think he should be toughness 5. Although he has left the empire and doesn't have acess to the. Ithink t 5, eternal warrior, or a +3 invulnerable would be good options for him to have. One of the 3 would make him more durable and a more capable close combat unit while at the same time not as powerful as an Archon.

Why should he get Hammer of Wraith??? His suit type doesn't provide it and what makes him spcial enough to get it.

The other two characters I wish they do to them what they did to Aun'Shi if you want my opinion about them.

I have written rules for a revamped Aun'shi. As you would like to see it, here they are:
Aun'shi
Aun

The Man They Call Jayne

Any enemy wounded by the Dawn Blade may not take any armour saves against this weapon. Seems pretty simple and unconfusable.

It DOES get a boost against vehicles in the form of Armourbane. Adding AP1 or 2 makes it even more powerful and would have to raise the cost further.
Jaynes Awesome Card Counter: +5

Secondspheres Crash Card Counter +4



Scout Sergeant Mkoll

I still think Aun'shi is a little too powerful when he's not in a challenge. Tau should not be able to reduce a squad of 15 charging Genestealers to 1 attack per model "just because". I get that he's good, especially by Tau standards, but I repeat my earlier point, if there's 15 guys attacking you can not parry them all. Especially when they're faster and better than you are.
Mkoll's Awesome Card Counter: +8

May the brave be remembered forever. Farewell our friends.

Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

[img]http

Narric

Quote from: Warmaster Russ on January 04, 2013, 02:43:53 PM
I still think Aun'shi is a little too powerful when he's not in a challenge. Tau should not be able to reduce a squad of 15 charging Genestealers to 1 attack per model "just because". I get that he's good, especially by Tau standards, but I repeat my earlier point, if there's 15 guys attacking you can not parry them all. Especially when they're faster and better than you are.
I may have poorly worded his ability. Only models in base contact WITH AUN'SHI lose and attack, and they only lose a single attack. I put in "Minimum 1" for any unit which only has a single attack, plus its charge attack.

Does that make you sit more comfortably?

Scout Sergeant Mkoll

It does, as even if he's surrounded it's only going to affect 6 models at absolute most. Admittedly, that's still a bit much but that's an extreme case so I can live with it, depending on points costs of course, but I'm guessing they'll be discussed once we know what we're actually costing. :P
Mkoll's Awesome Card Counter: +8

May the brave be remembered forever. Farewell our friends.

Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

[img]http

Narric

I guess we could start with current Codex cost, and work from there. I chose to not include Costings at the start so that rules could be discussed without Pts being a limitation. However, if it makes reworking characters easier, then might as well let them be added to the discussion.

Once we have our Codex Characters sorted, perhaps we can then expand into Forge World Characters, and then onto Fan-made creations?

Chicop76

#39
Quote from: Warmaster Russ on January 04, 2013, 04:11:44 PM
It does, as even if he's surrounded it's only going to affect 6 models at absolute most. Admittedly, that's still a bit much but that's an extreme case so I can live with it, depending on points costs of course, but I'm guessing they'll be discussed once we know what we're actually costing. :P

I just wanted to throw out there he really isn't expensive. That is a huge nerf of what he used to could do. Heck I would challenge almost always with Aun'Shi to make sure you can only hit me with usually 1 attack which could be a re rollabe invulnerable save.

Today I will revisit the O'Shova fluff. I read the original and glanced over the current. I say the changes and didn't really readthe old fluff since I knew the older fluff. Although I lost my original Tau book.

Looking over the recent codex the way the weapon is worded. Igores vaves with armour bane is good like that. Givining it ap 2 gives it +1 to the die roll vs vehicles.

Rereading the fluff it is mention that his tau doesn't engage in long range combat and do close quartered combat. Even tough he knows the benefits of ranged combat. Under Orc fighters it is mentioned they train in melee combat. With those two sentences it makes me think these Tau knows kung fu. I would dare say they would probably beat up a normal Tau in a fight.

O'Shova has a Jet Pack and is not a Jump Unit. Jet Packs get bulky, deep strike, and relentless and not the Hammer of Wrath rule. I'm looking at pg 47 main book. I remember they didnkt have it cause I was thinking of running gundrone units that would shoot and assault. Since that unit type does not receive wrath I gave up on that ideal for the time being.




The Man They Call Jayne

Arent Gun Drone Jump Packers, not Jet Packers?
Jaynes Awesome Card Counter: +5

Secondspheres Crash Card Counter +4



Narric

#41
As per the 6th ed Errata and FAQ, V1.1

Page 32

Chicop76



Pottsey

One of the biggest problems with Tau characters and HQ is with bodyguards or drones in the case of Shadowsun they are no longer IC so cannot Look out sir on 2+. Only being able to LoS on 4+ hurts.

Scout Sergeant Mkoll

Quote from: Chicop76 on January 05, 2013, 02:24:32 AM
To be honest I would like gun drones have 3 attacks on top of shooting.
I'm going to assume that's a joke.

Quote from: Pottsey on January 06, 2013, 09:34:12 AM
One of the biggest problems with Tau characters and HQ is with bodyguards or drones in the case of Shadowsun they are no longer IC so cannot Look out sir on 2+. Only being able to LoS on 4+ hurts.
That can easily be rectified here. It would make sense after all. :)
Mkoll's Awesome Card Counter: +8

May the brave be remembered forever. Farewell our friends.

Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

[img]http