How would you guys crack my Dark Eldar army?

[BigToof]

Hi Crisis,
From what I've read of your reps and seeing how your list runs, I'd say that you run a very mobile, shooty force that runs by using Ravagers as primary tank busters, followed by Trueborn and the Reavers as secondaries.  You have a lot of poison shots from the Venoms and plenty of mobility as you have a lot of Skimmers.  Also, you have anti-elite assault elements from the Archon and Incubi.

I think it's a solid list that will have trouble with the usual problems, mostly when a list can either consistently outrange and outshoot our skimmers (i.e. Imperial Guard) or are too tough to deal with out of assault (i.e. Terminators).  Necron Air Force does have the problem with them flooding the board with a unit that we just can't touch, which is, to put it mildly, hard to counter.  Not to say that it's impossible, but harder than other lists which are leaning more towards less mobile gunlines with some mech elements to back them up.

Likewise, Dark Eldar is very, very fragile so the element of luck can come back to hit you in the face, just because we need to rely on our Dark Lances, and as I'm sure you know, they can be finicky.

So you don't have that many bad matchups, but unfortunately one army is very common (IG), but I think they give trouble for everyone...

Best,
-BT

[Waaaghpower]

I'd do what I always do: BIKER NOBZZZES RAAARGH!
Seriously though, I've never seen my biker nobz get successfully shot up before they reach you and tear apart all of your tanks and ranged units. With 4+, 5++, automatic 4+ cover, and FNP, plus T5 and a T6 Warboss, it takes massed S10 shots that deny cover in order to really put on the hurt. And even then, I only need to get 2-3 guys across (That is, my 2-3 power klaws) in order to rip you apart.
Beyond that, I'd take lootas in order to shred your flyers (They do take a BS penalty, but since we are only BS2 anyways that doesn't matter much,) with anywhere from 15-45 S7 shots, and hordes of dirt-cheap boys to soak up firepower.

One problem I see with your list is massed killpoints. It's lots of units, even for 2000 points, so on certain game types a power-unit (that is, few but powerful units instead of lots of cheap cannon fodder) enemy will easily win if you can't wipe them off the board. Admittedly I don't know much about Eldar specifically, but from what I know they aren't the hardest guys to kill when it comes to survivability.

Then again, I haven't played Dark Eldar in a long time so I could be completely off on that, it's just my 2 cents.

Poison takes away the toughness equation for Dark Eldar, and the combined might of splinter cannons and Dark Lances would at least the Nobs and Warboss to take a leadership test. Of course, I personally would prefer to gun down lootas before Nobs, but it depends on the situation.

As for the kill points, Dark Eldar is not known to have less than 10 KP to begin with, so it is a given more or less and something that I will have to take like a man.

DO NOT target lootas over biker nobz. Seriously, that will get you slaughtered every time.
You have one turn to destroy biker nobz, because once they assault you will die. (I've never been bested in close combat by a single unit with them. A couple monstrous creatures or multi assaults from a close combat army, but never 1 on 1.) I don't know how many other ork players use my strategies, but Biker Nobz are incredibly powerful.
A couple other words of advice:
Don't count on a leadership test making us run. With a boss, I'm leadership 9 and with a bosspole, I get a re-roll on that.
Also don't count them as broken (IE worthless) until every man in the unit is dead. It only takes 1 left to still be a very valid, deadly fighting force.

One thing, though, while you should focus on them, killing the Lootas is by no means a bad idea. I'd just suggest you keep threat assessment in mind: Lootas can cause a lot of hurt, but they sometimes fail to do anything for a turn or two when you roll a '1' for the number of shots you get.

[crisis_vyper]

DO NOT target lootas over biker nobz. Seriously, that will get you slaughtered every time.
You have one turn to destroy biker nobz, because once they assault you will die. (I've never been bested in close combat by a single unit with them. A couple monstrous creatures or multi assaults from a close combat army, but never 1 on 1.) I don't know how many other ork players use my strategies, but Biker Nobz are incredibly powerful.
A couple other words of advice:
Don't count on a leadership test making us run. With a boss, I'm leadership 9 and with a bosspole, I get a re-roll on that.
Also don't count them as broken (IE worthless) until every man in the unit is dead. It only takes 1 left to still be a very valid, deadly fighting force.

One thing, though, while you should focus on them, killing the Lootas is by no means a bad idea. I'd just suggest you keep threat assessment in mind: Lootas can cause a lot of hurt, but they sometimes fail to do anything for a turn or two when you roll a '1' for the number of shots you get.

Lootas are more deadly to me than a bunch of Bikers to be honest, and from my experience Nobs are not a problem as Focus Fire and the right angling will allow me to kill the important models that I need. I do not need to kill them all, I just need to kill the models that matter. Leadership test for them is a bonus of course, and killing the squad off is amazing, but for my purposes, Nobs are the least of my concern. No offense though for your advocacy of their bite, as I do have an Ork army. Not to mention that the use of the unit depends on how the general uses them so even I can't say anything much about the tactic that you use to bring them closer.

And for the 'never bested in CC before' mindset, you really need to face off against some Paladins.  Combine their Rad Grenades and their psychic stuff, you will find them a worthy opponent. I personally never underestimate my opponents unless their list really did not respect my options (in other words, no long range weaponry).

On average each Loota will be able to bring two shots per turn (counting averages here) and thus they are a threat. If there is something that can down a skimmer at range reliably every turn, I will kill them without hesitation unless situation dictates so. Even if they roll 1s, the fact still remains that if I let them live, my skimmers will be going down once a turn.

My gripe with the army is when it comes to troops they are not really threating are have real bite. The reason why I say this is half of the other armies troops you actually fear. Orcs and guard for example with their huge 30 plus model mobs, tyranid gaunts that can re roll hits in shooting and combat and re roll wounds in combat, bike troopers, grey knights any troop option, terminators, etc.  Tau falls in the same line as dark eldar.

Dark Eldar is what I call an inbetween army. It is more forgiving than a marine army, but like a marine army you fell your losses. While nids, orcs, guard, tau( I fielded horde type Tau before), Chaos Marines now, sisters( going horde) laugh at bad rolls and losing a handful of models.

Well, if given a choice I would not even want to have foot soldiers. But that saying, only Guard pose a problem to me while Orks feel alright to me. I believe it is due to the range of their guns. Nids I often just try to kill the synapses.

For me Marines are easier to make mistakes with at times than Dark Eldar, especially firing arcs. But of course you are right that casualties count.

From what I've read of your reps and seeing how your list runs, I'd say that you run a very mobile, shooty force that runs by using Ravagers as primary tank busters, followed by Trueborn and the Reavers as secondaries.  You have a lot of poison shots from the Venoms and plenty of mobility as you have a lot of Skimmers.  Also, you have anti-elite assault elements from the Archon and Incubi.

I think it's a solid list that will have trouble with the usual problems, mostly when a list can either consistently outrange and outshoot our skimmers (i.e. Imperial Guard) or are too tough to deal with out of assault (i.e. Terminators).  Necron Air Force does have the problem with them flooding the board with a unit that we just can't touch, which is, to put it mildly, hard to counter.  Not to say that it's impossible, but harder than other lists which are leaning more towards less mobile gunlines with some mech elements to back them up.

Likewise, Dark Eldar is very, very fragile so the element of luck can come back to hit you in the face, just because we need to rely on our Dark Lances, and as I'm sure you know, they can be finicky.

So you don't have that many bad matchups, but unfortunately one army is very common (IG), but I think they give trouble for everyone...

I am surprised with the Terminator comment, but otherwise I believe that your assessment of the weakness of my list is sound. How would you improve my list if it could be improved even further?

[Arguleon-veq]

I did have a long detailed post but my laptop died and I lost it  . So in short, any army with decent long ranged fire and/or a decent air force will always give an army like this big problems. A lot of the time an army like this needs to go first for the win, going second against a well made force with decent firepower will mean losing too much of the army for a viable fightback. You can mitigate the AA problem with eldar and you can mitigate the enemy firepower with night shields on every skimmer. Even Necron Barges take out Venoms as despite a 24'' gun they can move 12'' and are seriously dangerous with snapshots thanks to twin linking and tesla. Without the Venoms you cant take out the Wraith spam.

Even using these things to mitigate these weaknesses it is still a massive struggle to get over going second as there is never enough terrain to hide all those skimmers. When ive ran my own venombuild against my own wolf/guard I lose about 4-5 venoms if I go second. Thankfully you usually have a 50/50 chance of first turn then you also have a chance of night fight which also keeps the DE army safe for a turn so that it can get the alphastrike in but it is a glaring weakness that is very hard to deal with besides hoping to go first or to get night fight. You can further mitigate it by giving yourself a chance of choosing night fight with your warlord traits but thats the best we can do.

I would put in the anti air and night shields though, this makes your army next to impossible to defeat for all those top armies right now that arent playinga long ranged game [necrons, gk, daemons, nids]. Daemons are actually a bit of a threat without night shields as Kairos, Flamers with their normal shooting attacks and Daemon Princes can all take out venoms but their guns are short ranged, with night shields theres a good chance they wont be in. You need those Venoms to gun them down.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Not saying wracks and wytchs are not scarry. Just saying a basic marine squad with a power sword sarge can give the squad a run for their money. Either can win depending who charges who.

If that's what you think then you haven't seen a properly kitted out Wych squad. I've had 1 Wych squad tie up half an army before now, and hold their own while doing it. Hydra Gauntlets are a godsend.

As for improving your list Vyper, the only thing I can think of would be to add Night Shields so that you can kite Heavy Bolters and the like, trouble is finding the points. I'd suggest dropping 1 Reaver from each squad to get Nightshields on just a couple of your vehicles, but then that's costing you the second Heat Lance so I'm not sure.

[crisis_vyper]

I did have a long detailed post but my laptop died and I lost it  . So in short, any army with decent long ranged fire and/or a decent air force will always give an army like this big problems. A lot of the time an army like this needs to go first for the win, going second against a well made force with decent firepower will mean losing too much of the army for a viable fightback. You can mitigate the AA problem with eldar and you can mitigate the enemy firepower with night shields on every skimmer. Even Necron Barges take out Venoms as despite a 24'' gun they can move 12'' and are seriously dangerous with snapshots thanks to twin linking and tesla. Without the Venoms you cant take out the Wraith spam.

Even using these things to mitigate these weaknesses it is still a massive struggle to get over going second as there is never enough terrain to hide all those skimmers. When ive ran my own venombuild against my own wolf/guard I lose about 4-5 venoms if I go second. Thankfully you usually have a 50/50 chance of first turn then you also have a chance of night fight which also keeps the DE army safe for a turn so that it can get the alphastrike in but it is a glaring weakness that is very hard to deal with besides hoping to go first or to get night fight. You can further mitigate it by giving yourself a chance of choosing night fight with your warlord traits but thats the best we can do.

I would put in the anti air and night shields though, this makes your army next to impossible to defeat for all those top armies right now that arent playinga long ranged game [necrons, gk, daemons, nids]. Daemons are actually a bit of a threat without night shields as Kairos, Flamers with their normal shooting attacks and Daemon Princes can all take out venoms but their guns are short ranged, with night shields theres a good chance they wont be in. You need those Venoms to gun them down.

You have caught on to something very subtle but very important for my army; I love night fighting. I even take the Strategic Warlord trait to take advantage of that as well. And the terrain thing is kinda true now that I think about it as I rarely put my forces in reserve these days. I tried to veer away from the alpha strike gameplan, but the thing is that the edition is soo shooty now that the evolution of this army is becoming a little bit more specialized to alpha strikes.

Such is the Dark Eldar dillemma.

As for improving your list Vyper, the only thing I can think of would be to add Night Shields so that you can kite Heavy Bolters and the like, trouble is finding the points. I'd suggest dropping 1 Reaver from each squad to get Nightshields on just a couple of your vehicles, but then that's costing you the second Heat Lance so I'm not sure.

Both you and Veq may be right in regards to this, as I noticed that one day I will come face to face with some Air Force army, and I believe that Nightshields are really good in this edition. I can always take out the Incubi and the Haemonculus/Archon to spare the points for taking some allies to compensate for it.

@Veq; Next to Impossible? Those are some big words there, but I wanna have that kind of army.......

[Chicop76]

1. Never said Wytchs couldn't tie units. Just saying wracks can do the same and depending on what they tying up. Low wound power weapon units great. Lots of wounds no.

2. Orc bikes against crusaders and deathcult with rad and psychotroke techmarine with +2 invul in combat, or Skulltaker on juggernaught with a full squad of bloodcrushers could take on that squad rather easily. I wouldn't say orc bikers are the scarriest thing the orcs can throw out. Alli can say is this, Vindicare and psyker battle squad or flamers of tzeentch would fix that problem.

3. Not saying Daemons can't down the skimmers. Just saying all those poison attack is a bother. However flamers and screamers would do fine. If lucky 3 flamer squads can take out 3 boats with fateweaver and others hopefully taking out 2 or 3 more. My concern is my flamer squads after the boats are downed. However assaulting them wouldn't be on of the wisest things to do.

[Waaaghpower]

2. Orc bikes against crusaders and deathcult with rad and psychotroke techmarine with +2 invul in combat, or Skulltaker on juggernaught with a full squad of bloodcrushers could take on that squad rather easily. I wouldn't say orc bikers are the scarriest thing the orcs can throw out. Alli can say is this, Vindicare and psyker battle squad or flamers of tzeentch would fix that problem.

Not talking Ork Bikers, talking Nob Bikers. Whole other potato, buddy. (Though I will concede that Monstrous Creatures, Walkers, and a couple other really powerful units can best them in close combat. In that case, though, I'd pound them to death with my guns and avoid combat as long as possible.

[Chicop76]

2. Orc bikes against crusaders and deathcult with rad and psychotroke techmarine with +2 invul in combat, or Skulltaker on juggernaught with a full squad of bloodcrushers could take on that squad rather easily. I wouldn't say orc bikers are the scarriest thing the orcs can throw out. Alli can say is this, Vindicare and psyker battle squad or flamers of tzeentch would fix that problem.

Not talking Ork Bikers, talking Nob Bikers. Whole other potato, buddy. (Though I will concede that Monstrous Creatures, Walkers, and a couple other really powerful units can best them in close combat. In that case, though, I'd pound them to death with my guns and avoid combat as long as possible.

Thunderwolves and the list goes on. I ment Nob bikers and not th one wound bikers. Thanks to 6th the would allocation trickery is a bit harder to pull off than in 5th. I fear a ton of str 7 shots than a huge point sink in my opinion. I see them usually wth warboss included easily worth 25%-35% ofyour army. Some things in 40k makes them go bye bye rather easily, like a grey knight libby who flames them with that I check flame weapon. Not saying they are not a threat. I seem them on the same lines as a Tyranid death star unit, it' simpressive until some armies gimmickws wipes them off the board. I for one love gimmicks and love to use them hich pays off sometimes.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

1. Never said Wytchs couldn't tie units. Just saying wracks can do the same and depending on what they tying up. Low wound power weapon units great. Lots of wounds no.

Wyches are FAR better at holding that Wracks, their invun plus more attacks and higher initiative is invaluable. Especially as they cost the same to begin with. I would consider trying to get some Wyches into this list to be honest, but I'm not sure it's all that worth it.

Crisis: If you want night shields, just drop the Haemonculus. Given that he's got a liquifier gun that should free up enough points for Night Shields on most of your vehicles. Playtest that, see how it works out for you and then go from there. Night Shields should especially help against Guard actually. If you can immobilise their Chimeras you can then laugh and safely sit outside multilaser range.

[Arguleon-veq]

Yeah Nob Bikers arent a big threat to this kind of list, their effective range is 30'' which is easily countered by this fast moving DE army even without skimmers. The mass of poison wounds will bring them down, the DE cant deal with them in combat but the skimmers can certainly deal with them.

Lootas are the big threat from Orks as they can pop 3 skimmers a turn at extreme range and 45 of them are hard to shoot down from cover. If the Lootas go first its probably going to be a bad game for the DE, they are the priority target.

The problem with Wyches is that they dont work as a tar pit if they get shot at, Wracks can at least take a little firepower. I really rate Wracks with Liquifier Guns. Some in a Venom means that if the add model is going to sneak through and get a charge on your Venom once they have cornered you and being shot up, the Liquifier Gun should down them on the way in with overwatch or can beat them in combat. Wyches are great for cheap haywires though. Small units of them in Venoms for added anti tank is quite nice.

[Chicop76]

Yeah Nob Bikers arent a big threat to this kind of list, their effective range is 30'' which is easily countered by this fast moving DE army even without skimmers. The mass of poison wounds will bring them down, the DE cant deal with them in combat but the skimmers can certainly deal with them.

Lootas are the big threat from Orks as they can pop 3 skimmers a turn at extreme range and 45 of them are hard to shoot down from cover. If the Lootas go first its probably going to be a bad game for the DE, they are the priority target.

The problem with Wyches is that they dont work as a tar pit if they get shot at, Wracks can at least take a little firepower. I really rate Wracks with Liquifier Guns. Some in a Venom means that if the add model is going to sneak through and get a charge on your Venom once they have cornered you and being shot up, the Liquifier Gun should down them on the way in with overwatch or can beat them in combat. Wyches are great for cheap haywires though. Small units of them in Venoms for added anti tank is quite nice.

The grenades are a good choice for the wyches as an extra anti vehicle deterent. I think it would be good for anti dreadnought.

1. Never said Wytchs couldn't tie units. Just saying wracks can do the same and depending on what they tying up. Low wound power weapon units great. Lots of wounds no.

Wyches are FAR better at holding that Wracks, their invun plus more attacks and higher initiative is invaluable. Especially as they cost the same to begin with. I would consider trying to get some Wyches into this list to be honest, but I'm not sure it's all that worth it.

Crisis: If you want night shields, just drop the Haemonculus. Given that he's got a liquifier gun that should free up enough points for Night Shields on most of your vehicles. Playtest that, see how it works out for you and then go from there. Night Shields should especially help against Guard actually. If you can immobilise their Chimeras you can then laugh and safely sit outside multilaser range.

It depends what they are tying up. A bloodthirster for example I rather wracks be in combat with it than wytches. On only wound on 6s while the other wound on 4s. Although the wytches would last longer. Although you have to keep in mind wracks are t4 instead of t3, so after your boat explodes, overwatch, etc. You will have more wracks than wytchs getting into combat. Even if you drop out the boat succesfully overwatch is still a factor. Most overwatch shots are deadly to wytches while the wracks can shrug them off. The higher toughness also factor in with the wors save. The only real benefit wytches have is the minus attacks and the upgrade character.

I'll use Tau for example.
12 fire warriors fire 24 overwatch shots.
4 hit wounding on 2s likely killing 4 wytches
Against Wracks
4hit wounding on 3s killing 2 wracks

The differance in combat wracks get to re roll wounds

Let's say 20 guardsmen is swinging at both units
Against wytches we will minus 2 attacks for 18 attacks
9 hit, 4.5 wound, 2.25 die

Same against wrackss
20 attacks, 10 hit, 3 wound, 2 die

Roughly the same thing. Keep in mind though the more wytches assault the more loses you will take over wracks.

Which one is better in assaults

Wracks against guardsmen again
10 wracks for 30 attacks
20 hit
15 wound
10 dead guardsman
W/ power weapon on Acothyst
4 attacks
3 hit
1.5 dead extra guardsman
11.5 guardsman total

Wyches
10 for 30 attacks
20 hit
10 wound
7 dead guardsman
Sybarite same as above
Total 8.5 guardman
Let's pay more hydragauntlets, which to be honest If wyches take two than the wracks of course will take their two random flame templates, which they have a good chance 50% of hurting marines.
For giggles let's. They get the max 10 attacks extra, +2 was included earlier at the top.
10 attacks
7 hit
3.5 wound
2.5 guardsman die
Total 11

Even with the hydragauntlets at max effect they just slightly under the wracks when it comes to vs guard.

The wytches I 6 is helpful to hit first before they are struck. Although keeping in mind the overwatch losses it is not really something they have over the wracks.

Against str 6 and higher wyches actually becomes more durable in combat, vs. Str 8 and higher the differance really shows. If you see terminators with power fist throw wyches at them.

On the flip side when faced against toughness 3 or better the wracks simply do better. Against t3 they get to re roll and even against a wraith lord they still wounding on 4s. When you hit toughness 2 and lower wyches start to do more damage, and how my toughness 2 models are out there, sadly there is more t6 models out there than t2.

Well I'll do one more scenrio to show I am not biased. To be honest they perform the same to me. I personally would rather wracks or throw a hamey with the wyches. In this scenrio they are assaulting marines in cover. A squad of 10 normal marines with missle launcher, flammer, and power fist. I would throw in a combi-flamer which I see people starting to pick up, but to play nice for the wyches I won't add it.

First the wyches with hydragauntlets 2 and a agoniser
Over watch wall of fire hits 2 times wounding on 3s. 2 dead wyches
15 bolt shots where 2 hit, really 2.5 but earlier I rounded up. 2 more dead wyches

Almost forgot wyches can shoot pistols. 10 shots, 7 hit, 3.5 wound. 1 dead marine
That slighly changes the above, so I will say 3 dead wytches

23 attacks with 6 wytches including hydra
12 hit
4 wound
1 dead marine +1 due to agoniser for 3 dead marines

6 marines hit back
3 hit
2 wound
1 dead wytch while the pf sargent will kill another, I rounded down earlier and this is close to one with 2 dead wtches in combar

So round one 3 dead marines and 5 dead wyches. I could go on with is, but you get the general point. As a side not it would benefit either side to challenge. The eldar upgrade character have a better chance of killing the marine upgrade character. For simplicity I didn't include. Realistically it is sound for both sides to accept although the eldar upgrade have a decent chance .75 to kill the marine while on the flip side the marine have a .5 chance. It does make a differance where a conservative player may decline meaning one less dead wytch

Ok the wracks turn. 3.5 is average for the flame template, to be fair I decided to do on str 3 ap 4 and a ap 4 str 3. It can go to str 6 ap 1, but the 50% chance of bypassing marine armour is very real. Looking at the book the str is set and the ap is random, so I will have one template bypass armour and one that do not.

Flame template set up can be random from covering 10 models to as many as 1-3. I will go with 6 as a good number. I was thinking 5, but 6 is a nice whole number.

Wracks flamer one kills 3 marines, while flamer two kills one
4 marines dead

Over Watch
Flamer hit twice wounding once killing 1 wrack, .66% chance
9 rapid fire shots, 1.5 hit, .75 wound, .50% chance of killing wrack so I will still go with one wrack dead overall 1.16 is closer to one than two.

Marines go first since in cover. 5 marines attack back
2.5 hit
1.25 wound
1 dead wrack for 2 total

21 wrack attacks
12 hit
6 wound
2 dead marines

Power sarge kills another wrack for 3 total
Acolyte attacks 3 attacks 1.5 hit .75 kills a marine

So in this case you have 6-7 marines dead with 3 dead wracks

I may be slightly off, but the math is still close enough.

My opinion wracks are more well rounded than wyches. Let's not do the comparison to the untis when your boat blows up. With the change in fleet it is not a bad ideal to throw a hammy in a wych squad if you want them to stay in combat forever.

I would say wracks are just as good as tying up a unit as wracks are.

[crisis_vyper]

Crisis: If you want night shields, just drop the Haemonculus. Given that he's got a liquifier gun that should free up enough points for Night Shields on most of your vehicles. Playtest that, see how it works out for you and then go from there. Night Shields should especially help against Guard actually. If you can immobilise their Chimeras you can then laugh and safely sit outside multilaser range.

Yeah, I was thinking more of the Haemonculus taking the boot more than the Archon. I also feel that downgrading the Archon will also free up even more points, especially when I drop the soul-trap and the Huskblade and put in a Venom Blade instead. That's approximately 105 points right there to upgrade my skimmers with the Nightshields. I may even downgrade the Incubi Raider into a Venom and take down another Incubi just so that I can have Nightshields on everything.

What is the range of the multilaser anyway? I never really knew how far the range of that is.

[Chicop76]

Crisis: If you want night shields, just drop the Haemonculus. Given that he's got a liquifier gun that should free up enough points for Night Shields on most of your vehicles. Playtest that, see how it works out for you and then go from there. Night Shields should especially help against Guard actually. If you can immobilise their Chimeras you can then laugh and safely sit outside multilaser range.

Yeah, I was thinking more of the Haemonculus taking the boot more than the Archon. I also feel that downgrading the Archon will also free up even more points, especially when I drop the soul-trap and the Huskblade and put in a Venom Blade instead. That's approximately 105 points right there to upgrade my skimmers with the Nightshields. I may even downgrade the Incubi Raider into a Venom and take down another Incubi just so that I can have Nightshields on everything.

What is the range of the multilaser anyway? I never really knew how far the range of that is.

I think it is 36" off the top of my head let me look. Yup 36". Knew it was 36 or 48. I think a few hammys would be better. You have one melee unit and it is not to hard to get rid off. I typically wuld multi your boats over denying feel no pain personally.

I would say Dark Eldar is one of those few armies I turn my plasma gunners on vehicles instead of troops.

[Arguleon-veq]

Good call on dropping the Archons gear for a Venomblade. As an awful lot of tough units these days have an invun save that is better than their normal save [as they usually dont have a normal save] the Venomblade is a smart choice, plus I think wounding on 2+ offsets them getting a save even if its 3+. I think in terms of points effectiveness its his best weapon. That and a Shadowfield can bog down very good characters in challenges for ages and often come out on top thanks to weight of wounds caused.