Opinions about Dark Angels

[BigToof]

Watched and played versus the new Dark Angels, and I have to say...

They're legit!

As in, dangerous, really.  Quite a bit more than the old DA's.

They have a lot of force multipliers and those banners are quite evil!

Oddly enough, I think nobody is going to take the fliers, as you can either basically ignore enemy fliers (Ravenwing can get 2+ coversaves or Deathwing don't care) or try taking potshots with your Flakk missiles on your cheap tactical squads.

BTW, those rad grenades are really scary, and make the Black Knights actually dangerous.

However, I've noticed that it's the Ravenwing and Deathwing that seem to do the real heavy lifting of the lists, and the Tacs are well... Tactical squads still, so not really dangerous.

Ravenwing HATE Helldrakes btw.  My Chaos mate was fighting them and having a real tough time with their Hit and Run shenanigans until the Drakes came in and burned them.  I think it was a draw in the end, but I could see how both codexes really do counter each other, although it seems like Chaos is a bit harder to work with...

Best,
-BT

[Arguleon-veq]

The black knights cant take meltas but they can rad a unit like nob bikers to allow your ravenwing bikers to melta them to instant death.

Baleflamers will be an utter nightmare for ravenwing lists. A 3+ Cover just for moving doesnt do much good against a baleflamer, they are going to need Sammeal in front of one unit and maybe an artificier bike captain at the front of another unit to have any chance of keeping those units alive from baleflamers. Its pretty funny that Chaos trump the best DA build when the rest of the DA book is fantastic against Chaos.

Im really liking the Darkshroud now, unless ive read it wrong it has Stealth and its own shroud generator gives it Shroud too. So if it moves it gets a 2+ Cover Save thanks to Jink. Now this could be a typo as it doesnt have stealth in one part of the book but it does in the army list part.

The same for Black Knights, the plasma talon doesnt have rapid fire in the middle of the book but does in the back. If they arent rapid fire, they arent worth so many points each.

[Chicop76]

The black knights cant take meltas but they can rad a unit like nob bikers to allow your ravenwing bikers to melta them to instant death.

Baleflamers will be an utter nightmare for ravenwing lists. A 3+ Cover just for moving doesnt do much good against a baleflamer, they are going to need Sammeal in front of one unit and maybe an artificier bike captain at the front of another unit to have any chance of keeping those units alive from baleflamers. Its pretty funny that Chaos trump the best DA build when the rest of the DA book is fantastic against Chaos.

Im really liking the Darkshroud now, unless ive read it wrong it has Stealth and its own shroud generator gives it Shroud too. So if it moves it gets a 2+ Cover Save thanks to Jink. Now this could be a typo as it doesnt have stealth in one part of the book but it does in the army list part.

The same for Black Knights, the plasma talon doesnt have rapid fire in the middle of the book but does in the back. If they arent rapid fire, they arent worth so many points each.

That means the guard's banewolf might see some more use now. Flamers of Tzeentch is also a prime unit to use. The Calladius Assassian and the Necron flame weapon would be good to use as well especally if you lower leadership. Grey Knight Libby flamer power is a good option to include as well.

That's all I can think about for now. The Darkeldar liquidfier wouldn't be a bad weaon to pick up as well, with enough of them you are bound to get ap 3 or better. The landraider with dual flmaers is still too expensive.

I think most armies have an ap 3 or better flamer to take care of those annoying cover saves. Tau on the other hand can take them away, while guard can force you to re roll the saves you do make.

Guard, Tau, and Daemons are probablly the best armies to deal with the cover saving bikes.

[crisis_vyper]

Baleflamers will be an utter nightmare for ravenwing lists. A 3+ Cover just for moving doesnt do much good against a baleflamer, they are going to need Sammeal in front of one unit and maybe an artificier bike captain at the front of another unit to have any chance of keeping those units alive from baleflamers. Its pretty funny that Chaos trump the best DA build when the rest of the DA book is fantastic against Chaos.

Simplest solution to that would be to take a power field generator on one or two HQs that you will be taking and rock on with that 4++ save. The Techmarine and the Librarian are perhaps the best HQs to equip that power field generator on. Of course this is taken on squads that you really want to protect such as the Black Knights

Im really liking the Darkshroud now, unless ive read it wrong it has Stealth and its own shroud generator gives it Shroud too. So if it moves it gets a 2+ Cover Save thanks to Jink. Now this could be a typo as it doesnt have stealth in one part of the book but it does in the army list part.

They way I read it is that it gets a 3+ cover save when it moves more than 6", and a 2+ when it turboboost. The Stealth field only benefits all those around the Darkshroud, not the Darkshroud itself. However the way the rules are worded means that I have a question about what happens when two Darkshrouds are next to each other, as the rules state that it confers Stealth on those around it but not itself. Does that mean that Two Darkshrouds are unable to benefit from each other's stealth field, or that they do?

Watched and played versus the new Dark Angels, and I have to say...

They're legit!

As in, dangerous, really.  Quite a bit more than the old DA's.

They have a lot of force multipliers and those banners are quite evil!

Oddly enough, I think nobody is going to take the fliers, as you can either basically ignore enemy fliers (Ravenwing can get 2+ coversaves or Deathwing don't care) or try taking potshots with your Flakk missiles on your cheap tactical squads.

BTW, those rad grenades are really scary, and make the Black Knights actually dangerous.

However, I've noticed that it's the Ravenwing and Deathwing that seem to do the real heavy lifting of the lists, and the Tacs are well... Tactical squads still, so not really dangerous.

Ravenwing HATE Helldrakes btw.  My Chaos mate was fighting them and having a real tough time with their Hit and Run shenanigans until the Drakes came in and burned them.  I think it was a draw in the end, but I could see how both codexes really do counter each other, although it seems like Chaos is a bit harder to work with...

Best,
-BT

Yeah, and I believe that is how Vetock envisioned the book to be.

As for the Helldrake question, I could see a maxed out Land Speeder Typhoon squadron with a DarkShroud being the best possible offensive tool against most vehicles, especially when one consider a re-roll from the Librarian with Prescience being around to help. The Darkshroud will make sure that the Land Speeders would get all the protection that they would need.

[Lord Sotek]

I don't have a copy of the new codex to read yet, and I'm very jealous of those of you who do. I wasn't a fan of the new models for the DA, but Wargamer's pointed out to me that the new codex finally opens up loads of possibilities for me to represent my DIY chapter fluffily on tabletop, so hooray!

[crisis_vyper]

I don't have a copy of the new codex to read yet, and I'm very jealous of those of you who do. I wasn't a fan of the new models for the DA, but Wargamer's pointed out to me that the new codex finally opens up loads of possibilities for me to represent my DIY chapter fluffily on tabletop, so hooray!

I am wondering if I should be a successor or a pure Ravenwing, as I have so many ideas......

[BigToof]

Remember that powerfield generators are indiscriminatory, so you will be protecting your opponents if they get within 3" of your techmarine...

For some reason, I have this funny image of a techmarine being pavaned around by Daemons for the mobile save...

Best,
-BT

[crisis_vyper]

Remember that powerfield generators are indiscriminatory, so you will be protecting your opponents if they get within 3" of your techmarine...

For some reason, I have this funny image of a techmarine being pavaned around by Daemons for the mobile save...

Best,
-BT

Well, that is true, but sometimes I do not want to kill everything in my path and giving them that invul may not be that bad after all. , Not to mention that placement would solve that problem.

And that image is cute.

[crisis_vyper]

Just played with my Ravenwing today in a three way 1000 pts battle and I have to say, I am utterly amazed by the deployment opportunities that the list allows. The outflanking, the scouts, the movement.....it is quite unlike any marine list I have ever played before. Even my two opponents were surprised by the movement of my force, and the shenanigans I pulled out. I essentially only used like 500 pts of my force to severely cripple the orks and also caused the Blood Angels to utterly be outrunned and outgunned by my Ravenwing. As the reserves came in, the harassment capabilities of the army is astounding.

If this is the feel of a 1000pts army, I am definitely excited about the prospect of fielding a much larger army.....

But I also noticed that a pure Ravenwing army needs a lot of speed and shenanigans to be a force on the table, and the inclusion of a Librarian and at least one Darkshround is necessary for such shenanigans to happen. Also, I noticed that Typhoons are also vital for long-range fire support as the Ravenwing as a whole has an effective range of around 12-24".

[Chicop76]

I glanced ovr the codex and while the Chaos book seems like it can take a bite out of your hide the dark angel one isn't that bad.

1. Hmmmm. You can take venerable dreads which are a decent choice. Still can be glanced to death, but re rolling pen results allow the vehicle to live longer.

2. The landraider can do the same, but have to take special squads and spend the points to do so. It makes the raider harder to kill, still can be glanced death. Although a tech marine is more worth buying to keep the raider going.

3. Bikes and Terms can be troops at the same time .

4. A landspeeder with an invulnerable save with armour 14. Yeah. At least it is not a flyer.

The plasma bikes is not that bad. They cost almost 50 points and only have one wound. At 30 points I would worry, but hitting at around Thundercav without storm shields not too worried about them. In reality however the plasma rifles have a range of 30" if you include move ment. Rapid fire can almost be generated at a range of 24", so it is not a bad weapon, expensive.

Besides taking a ton of cheap landspeeders, libbys I do not really see them as scarry. I think the heavy landspeepder is nice, although it is fragile and you can only take one and not a squad. If you could take squads the heavy speeder although slightly costly would be a solid choice( 3 would lay down 9 plasma shots or 3 large plasm pie plates with 9 heavy bolter shots included.

I would say if you run a bike army and love lanspeeders and this is your army. I not really keen on the army color scheme, but I think they would make a good bike army and bikes are nice in 6th.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

The manager of one of mt local GW stores told me that some DA weapons get a +1 AP boost against chaos. So things like Heavy Bolters would become AP3. That just sounds needlessly thrown in.

[Lord Sotek]

The manager of one of mt local GW stores told me that some DA weapons get a +1 AP boost against chaos. So things like Heavy Bolters would become AP3. That just sounds needlessly thrown in.

No, no. There are weapons that do gain boosts against Chaos, but they're melee weapons limited to HQ choices or Deathwing Knight Terminators.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Ah, well thats much better. I am no longer incandescent with rage.

[crisis_vyper]

I glanced ovr the codex and while the Chaos book seems like it can take a bite out of your hide the dark angel one isn't that bad.

1. Hmmmm. You can take venerable dreads which are a decent choice. Still can be glanced to death, but re rolling pen results allow the vehicle to live longer.

2. The landraider can do the same, but have to take special squads and spend the points to do so. It makes the raider harder to kill, still can be glanced death. Although a tech marine is more worth buying to keep the raider going.

Fair enough, but I think that the other options of the books shine more than others.

3. Bikes and Terms can be troops at the same time .

Only if you are willing to take both Belial and Sammael, or Azrael.

4. A landspeeder with an invulnerable save with armour 14. Yeah. At least it is not a flyer.

Personally, I really enjoy the Biker Sammael than the Speeder Sammael as he is easier to hide and packs a more solid punch.

The plasma bikes is not that bad. They cost almost 50 points and only have one wound. At 30 points I would worry, but hitting at around Thundercav without storm shields not too worried about them. In reality however the plasma rifles have a range of 30" if you include move ment. Rapid fire can almost be generated at a range of 24", so it is not a bad weapon, expensive.

They are decent enough in close combat, and they have to be used with Darkshroud to be protected.

Besides taking a ton of cheap landspeeders, libbys I do not really see them as scarry. I think the heavy landspeepder is nice, although it is fragile and you can only take one and not a squad. If you could take squads the heavy speeder although slightly costly would be a solid choice( 3 would lay down 9 plasma shots or 3 large plasm pie plates with 9 heavy bolter shots included.

The Libbie is a force multiplier, not a beatstick.

I would say if you run a bike army and love lanspeeders and this is your army. I not really keen on the army color scheme, but I think they would make a good bike army and bikes are nice in 6th.

YOu can always paint it in a different colour scheme that suits your needs.

PS: CONSARN IT! Stupid slow internet killing off my response.

[Chicop76]

I glanced ovr the codex and while the Chaos book seems like it can take a bite out of your hide the dark angel one isn't that bad.

1. Hmmmm. You can take venerable dreads which are a decent choice. Still can be glanced to death, but re rolling pen results allow the vehicle to live longer.

2. The landraider can do the same, but have to take special squads and spend the points to do so. It makes the raider harder to kill, still can be glanced death. Although a tech marine is more worth buying to keep the raider going.

3. Bikes and Terms can be troops at the same time .

4. A landspeeder with an invulnerable save with armour 14. Yeah. At least it is not a flyer.

The plasma bikes is not that bad. They cost almost 50 points and only have one wound. At 30 points I would worry, but hitting at around Thundercav without storm shields not too worried about them. In reality however the plasma rifles have a range of 30" if you include move ment. Rapid fire can almost be generated at a range of 24", so it is not a bad weapon, expensive.

Besides taking a ton of cheap landspeeders, libbys I do not really see them as scarry. I think the heavy landspeepder is nice, although it is fragile and you can only take one and not a squad. If you could take squads the heavy speeder although slightly costly would be a solid choice( 3 would lay down 9 plasma shots or 3 large plasm pie plates with 9 heavy bolter shots included.

I would say if you run a bike army and love lanspeeders and this is your army. I not really keen on the army color scheme, but I think they would make a good bike army and bikes are nice in 6th.

Ok.